How many people actually play this style?

[Austin]

I'm curious. How many people even know about it? It seems rare to find someone who does.

[Jody Stecher]

That is not all. There are also unpicking techniques, including but not limited to  the 'guitar style" now associated with classic banjo playing that have been passed down from person to person and entirely bypassing minstrelsy and the repertoire and style represented in the printed tutors and recordings, and sheet music found in abundance on this website. I have played banjo using  these up-picking techniques since I was 12 years old. Now I'm close to 80. 

Those who detect the presence of both minstrel banjo playing and classic playing in a portion of Old-Time banjo playing are definitely seeing what is really there. Some is subtle, some more overt, some screamingly glaringly overt. But there are other portions where these influences are absent. 

[Jody Stecher]

Stupid spell "correcting" software changed what I typed which was "up-picking" to "unpicking".  What I meant is that the digits pluck the strings in the opposite direction as when banging/stroking/frailing the strings (down-picking). I wonder what changes will be made by my stupid software.  Maybe drown-picking. Or brown-picking.  Or down pinky.  Or dowel picnic. Or dove  pickle.

Jody Stecher said:

That is not all. There are also unpicking techniques, including but not limited to  the 'guitar style" now associated with classic banjo playing that have been passed down from person to person and entirely bypassing minstrelsy and the repertoire and style represented in the printed tutors and recordings, and sheet music found in abundance on this website. I have played banjo using  these up-picking techniques since I was 12 years old. Now I'm close to 80. 

Those who detect the presence of both minstrel banjo playing and classic playing in a portion of Old-Time banjo playing are definitely seeing what is really there. Some is subtle, some more overt, some screamingly glaringly overt. But there are other portions where these influences are absent. 

[Steve Harrison]

I must be one of the 20 UK classic banjo players mentioned by Richard. I didn't realize there were so few of us. I do teach banjo and at the moment I'm teaching Will Thomas who is making good progress, he is a classical guitarist and has taken to the banjo very well so maybe there is some hope for the future! My principle interest in classic style is to explore what is possible and over the years I've written over 800 arrangements in a variety of genres, the majority of which are ragtime related. Most of them have been added to the CB.ning library although, because of storage issues, my later arrangements have been added as posts. I'll be the first to admit that many of them are not what could called entry level and do need a degree of expertise to play so how many are actually played I've no idea. The majority of my arrangements are taken from piano scores down loaded from US University on line music libraries and although it's getting less easy, I'm still able to find the odd gem that's worth trying. At the moment, I've got around 40 part arranged tunes in various stages most of which I'm in two minds as to whether or not they are worthy of completion. I'm always on the look out for a new challenge so if anyone  has any suggestions, let me know....Steve

Richard William Ineson said:

It would be difficult if not impossible, to find out how many people in the world play the banjo in the classic style, Ian, who runs this site, Joel Hooks who I think is in charge of the American Banjo Fraternity, and whoever is in charge of the British B.M.G. Federation might be able provide some actual figures.  The figures will definitely be very low, probably less than 500, worldwide, the main concentrations of 'classic banjo' fans worldwide, I would think, are in the USA and the UK, there is a sprinkling in France and other European countries, and I know of one CB player, who lives in Borneo. The UK players of which I have knowledge, tend to keep to themselves and are rarely seen and definitely not heard very often (assuming that they are still alive). There used to be three banjo magazines/newsletters in the UK which helped to keep CB players in touch with each other, but they are no longer published. On the philosophical side, it is difficult to do anything on this planet and be certain that somebody somewhere else on this planet  isn't doing the same thing, but when you play, say, something like George Gregory's 'L'Infanta' march, you can be almost certain that you will be the only person on the planet who is doing it.

[Richard William Ineson]

Spare a thought for me and my surname which the so-called 'spell check' constantly changes to 'Insane'.

Jody Stecher said: '

Stupid spell "correcting" software changed what I typed which was "up-picking" to "unpicking".  What I meant is that the digits pluck the strings in the opposite direction as when banging/stroking/frailing the strings (down-picking). I wonder what changes will be made by my stupid software.  Maybe drown-picking. Or brown-picking.  Or down pinky.  Or dowel picnic. Or dove  pickle.

Jody Stecher said:

That is not all. There are also unpicking techniques, including but not limited to  the 'guitar style" now associated with classic banjo playing that have been passed down from person to person and entirely bypassing minstrelsy and the repertoire and style represented in the printed tutors and recordings, and sheet music found in abundance on this website. I have played banjo using  these up-picking techniques since I was 12 years old. Now I'm close to 80. 

Those who detect the presence of both minstrel banjo playing and classic playing in a portion of Old-Time banjo playing are definitely seeing what is really there. Some is subtle, some more overt, some screamingly glaringly overt. But there are other portions where these influences are absent. 

[Richard William Ineson]

You were included but there is still less than 20. I'm 78, another UK player is 80 and another one is 66, I suppose that you must be in your 70s (?) and the others are getting on in years. There is one youngish player but he might have found better things to do.

Steve Harrison said:

I must be one of the 20 UK classic banjo players mentioned by Richard. I didn't realize there were so few of us. I do teach banjo and at the moment I'm teaching Will Thomas who is making good progress, he is a classical guitarist and has taken to the banjo very well so maybe there is some hope for the future! My principle interest in classic style is to explore what is possible and over the years I've written over 800 arrangements in a variety of genres, the majority of which are ragtime related. Most of them have been added to the CB.ning library although, because of storage issues, my later arrangements have been added as posts. I'll be the first to admit that many of them are not what could called entry level and do need a degree of expertise to play so how many are actually played I've no idea. The majority of my arrangements are taken from piano scores down loaded from US University on line music libraries and although it's getting less easy, I'm still able to find the odd gem that's worth trying. At the moment, I've got around 40 part arranged tunes in various stages most of which I'm in two minds as to whether or not they are worthy of completion. I'm always on the look out for a new challenge so if anyone  has any suggestions, let me know....Steve

Richard William Ineson said:

It would be difficult if not impossible, to find out how many people in the world play the banjo in the classic style, Ian, who runs this site, Joel Hooks who I think is in charge of the American Banjo Fraternity, and whoever is in charge of the British B.M.G. Federation might be able provide some actual figures.  The figures will definitely be very low, probably less than 500, worldwide, the main concentrations of 'classic banjo' fans worldwide, I would think, are in the USA and the UK, there is a sprinkling in France and other European countries, and I know of one CB player, who lives in Borneo. The UK players of which I have knowledge, tend to keep to themselves and are rarely seen and definitely not heard very often (assuming that they are still alive). There used to be three banjo magazines/newsletters in the UK which helped to keep CB players in touch with each other, but they are no longer published. On the philosophical side, it is difficult to do anything on this planet and be certain that somebody somewhere else on this planet  isn't doing the same thing, but when you play, say, something like George Gregory's 'L'Infanta' march, you can be almost certain that you will be the only person on the planet who is doing it.

[IAN SALTER]

There are 934 people registered as members of this forum. There are probably about two dozen that have posted anything recently and half of that number that post regularly.

It would be interesting to see how many members, who only sign in to read the on going conversations, are still playing classic banjo. If they were to post nothing more than, for example YES, it would provide a basic indication of current activity, beyond this community.

[Jody Stecher]

I think it is likely that many more than 934 people have visited this site One needn't be a member or sign in to read only. Posting requires being signed in.

IAN SALTER said:

There are 934 people registered as members of this forum. There are probably about two dozen that have posted anything recently and half of that number that post regularly.

It would be interesting to see how many members, who only sign in to read the on going conversations, are still playing classic banjo. If they were to post nothing more than, for example YES, it would provide a basic indication of current activity, beyond this community.

[Austin]

Hmm interesting 

Joel Hooks said:

Gourd banjos, being 5 string banjos with gourd bodies, or rather necks in the style of early rimmed banjos graphed to gourd bodies are a recent innovation of Scott Diddlake and Clarke Buehling with no known historical examples to exist prior.  There is one example that was previously believed to fit this description but has since been proven to be not what it was claimed to be.

The current trend of 5 string gourd banjos post dates classic banjo and were created by the hands of a classic banjoist.  Foremost current historian Pete Ross has written about this many times.

Austin said:

Indeed. If they truly bypassed classic banjo then they would still be playing on gourd banjos.

Joel Hooks said:

… except for the fact that many of those “old time” Banjoists who were not influenced by classic banjo play on instruments that exist only because classic banjo was a thing.

[Russ Chandler]

When I ran Aaron Jonah Lewis at the Nether Edge Folk Club here in Sheffield a couple of years ago a few locally based classic players (including our Richard) turned up.

Jonah observed "there must be an actual percentage of the world's classic players in this room tonight..."

[Joel Hooks]

Aaron is in a whole different league.  Top of the top.  They could hang with Parke Hunter, Morley, Ossman, and got toe to toe.

[Ethan Schwartz]

Personally, I'm more interested in whether something predates the Civil War or not, as opposed to whether it specifically derives from minstrelsy. Minstrelsy was a commercial manifestation of something in the wider culture, but because that's what we have documentation of, it appears to us in hindsight as more isolated than it really was. Why the Civil War? Because it brought men from different parts of the country into contact. We know banjo playing was common entertainment among both Northern and Southern troops. Where they playing stroke style or finger style? Were they playing minstrel tunes or folk songs? I think the answer is probably all of the above. Then of course the men who survived the war eventually returned home and brought that musical experience with them.

When it comes to old-time banjo, the things we can confidently say precede the Civil War era — I am thinking of traditional British fiddle tunes and ballads — don't really have anything to do with the banjo. I don't find historical arguments based on playing technique that ignore musical repertoire/style to be compelling; it's the music people pass down, not the mechanics. And it's possible (this is just my hunch, not a claim) that a lot of old-time 2- and 3-finger picking was indeed influenced by guitar, but not via guitar-style banjo (as we know it). It was from black folk guitarists at the turn of the century. Were such guitarists influenced by earlier black banjo playing? Sure, but now it's becoming a bit circuitous. 

The narrative that's emerged in recent years is that traditions of black folk banjo are hidden within what we now call old-time and bluegrass, which is true on some level, but it comes with an implicit assertion that those traditions predate minstrelsy. Thus, people on the old-time side can pat themselves on the back for being part of this great multicultural experiment we call the banjo while also wiping their hands clean of any association with minstrelsy. Acknowledging the historical role of classic banjo (at the very least, in the development of the physical instrument) means also acknowledging what preceded it: minstrelsy. So it is convenient to either leave it out of the narrative entirely or portray it as a commercial (and ultimately dead-end) appropriation of "authentic" banjo playing. 

[I'm not arguing with you, Jody, just ranting]

Jody Stecher said:

That is not all. There are also unpicking techniques, including but not limited to  the 'guitar style" now associated with classic banjo playing that have been passed down from person to person and entirely bypassing minstrelsy and the repertoire and style represented in the printed tutors and recordings, and sheet music found in abundance on this website. I have played banjo using  these up-picking techniques since I was 12 years old. Now I'm close to 80. 

Those who detect the presence of both minstrel banjo playing and classic playing in a portion of Old-Time banjo playing are definitely seeing what is really there. Some is subtle, some more overt, some screamingly glaringly overt. But there are other portions where these influences are absent.