How many people actually play this style?

[Austin]

I'm curious. How many people even know about it? It seems rare to find someone who does.

[Richard William Ineson]

Austin, you do know that Alfred Farland tried all this 'elevation of the banjo' stuff around the turn of the 19th century, and 'nearly killed the banjo stone dead' as someone (could have been Van Eps or Ossman) said, as a result. Don't do it, it will break your heart and do nothing for the banjo. Stick to playing things like 'When You're Smiling' 'Baby Face' etc. you will make people happy and you will make money, if that is what you want to do.

Austin said:

IDK. I've always wanted to be a composer, and I think the banjo deserves more respect than it gets. I think I just want to play my own music and I thought a fresh sound would be what was needed to make myself stand out as a musician in that world.

IAN SALTER said:

Austin, why do you want to achieve it on the banjo?

[nick Kelly]

Then compose something, what is stopping you ? Good luck with gaining more respect for the banjo too, outside of this tiny group of banjo enthusiasts you may find that by and large in the wider world nobody cares very much. It is just a minority interest hobby after all.

Austin said:

IDK. I've always wanted to be a composer, and I think the banjo deserves more respect than it gets. I think I just want to play my own music and I thought a fresh sound would be what was needed to make myself stand out as a musician in that world.

IAN SALTER said:

Austin, why do you want to achieve it on the banjo?

[Ethan Schwartz]

I think your focus should be on developing your skills (both performing and composing), and not with the goal of standing out or "being original," which is a trap for any kind of creative work. Find what inspires you artistically and don't worry about what other people think. If you're really serious about composing, you should be studying things like orchestration and arrangement techniques, not limiting yourself to composing through the banjo.

The banjo does deserve more respect! And there is plenty of potential for the banjo to be applied to new musical contexts. But it also doesn't make sense to ignore the past 100 years of the instrument's history. There are players today doing amazingly technical things with the instrument, but they are a product of particular historical trajectories (e.g., the development of bluegrass). Give yourself permission to learn from their example, even if you don't intend on following it directly. 

It might be worthwhile for you to start a dialogue with Michael Nix. I don't know if he's lurking around here at all. He's from a classical guitar and bluegrass banjo background and composes new music for nylon-strung banjo. 

Austin said:

IDK. I've always wanted to be a composer, and I think the banjo deserves more respect than it gets. I think I just want to play my own music and I thought a fresh sound would be what was needed to make myself stand out as a musician in that world.

IAN SALTER said:

Austin, why do you want to achieve it on the banjo?

[Austin]

Nothing is stopping me. Other than my own tendency to overthink. I've got ideas, but I overthink how to actually go about developing them and as a result I finish very little. I'm currently working on a concert paraphrase called "Memories of Tosca" based on themes from Puccini's opera of the same name. 

nick Kelly said:

Then compose something, what is stopping you ? Good luck with gaining more respect for the banjo too, outside of this tiny group of banjo enthusiasts you may find that by and large in the wider world nobody cares very much. It is just a minority interest hobby after all.

Austin said:

IDK. I've always wanted to be a composer, and I think the banjo deserves more respect than it gets. I think I just want to play my own music and I thought a fresh sound would be what was needed to make myself stand out as a musician in that world.

IAN SALTER said:

Austin, why do you want to achieve it on the banjo?

[IAN SALTER]

Do you play any other musical instruments?

[Austin]

I am VERY aware of Farland. The thing is in my eyes 2 things were against him. 1.) You need to compose actual repertoire within the idiom you want to establish a canon for the instrument in if that makes sense and have those compositions played very often. You can't just arrange and perform arrangements. and 2.) The technology wasn't there yet. Recording tech could not capture the full range of expression one could put into banjo playing. Therefore, recordings had no real nuance compared to today. Also, about being "limited" by the banjo. I've never felt that way or looked at it with such a perspective. Just as Ysaye, Ernst and Paganini looked at the violin, arguably even more "limited", as a very powerful expressive tool, so too do I look at the banjo. With a banjo in my hands there are no perceivable limitations other than those of my current abilities and musical imagination.

Richard William Ineson said:

Austin, you do know that Alfred Farland tried all this 'elevation of the banjo' stuff around the turn of the 19th century, and 'nearly killed the banjo stone dead' as someone (could have been Van Eps or Ossman) said, as a result. Don't do it, it will break your heart and do nothing for the banjo. Stick to playing things like 'When You're Smiling' 'Baby Face' etc. you will make people happy and you will make money, if that is what you want to do.

Austin said:

IDK. I've always wanted to be a composer, and I think the banjo deserves more respect than it gets. I think I just want to play my own music and I thought a fresh sound would be what was needed to make myself stand out as a musician in that world.

IAN SALTER said:

Austin, why do you want to achieve it on the banjo?

[Austin]

I have a bit of piano training but not much.

IAN SALTER said:

Do you play any other musical instruments?

[Jody Stecher]

Can't just play arrangements: I guess that's why Segovia was such a flop and never made a career.

The banjo has no limitations:  Every instrument has limitations. Every individual thing in this world has limitations. If that were not the case then every *thing* would be *everything*.   The banjo has a characteristic voice, modified by the type of build and setup. Within that voice it has a limited number of tone colors. It will never have the variety of a pipe organ's colors.  Its range is limited to 3 octaves on a 22 fret instrument. It will never have the range of a piano.  A banjo is designed to have a short sustain. It will never have the sustain of a bowed instrument or even a guitar.   The banjo has a limited dynamic range. It will never be as loud as a highland bagpipe.

These are facts. They are not problems. Not at all. These limits are what makes a banjo what it is, and the banjo is a good thing. 

Austin said:

I am VERY aware of Farland. The thing is in my eyes 2 things were against him. 1.) You need to compose actual repertoire within the idiom you want to establish a canon for the instrument in if that makes sense and have those compositions played very often. You can't just arrange and perform arrangements. and 2.) The technology wasn't there yet. Recording tech could not capture the full range of expression one could put into banjo playing. Therefore, recordings had no real nuance compared to today. Also, about being "limited" by the banjo. I've never felt that way or looked at it with such a perspective. Just as Ysaye, Ernst and Paganini looked at the violin, arguably even more "limited", as a very powerful expressive tool, so too do I look at the banjo. With a banjo in my hands there are no perceivable limitations other than those of my current abilities and musical imagination.

Richard William Ineson said:

Austin, you do know that Alfred Farland tried all this 'elevation of the banjo' stuff around the turn of the 19th century, and 'nearly killed the banjo stone dead' as someone (could have been Van Eps or Ossman) said, as a result. Don't do it, it will break your heart and do nothing for the banjo. Stick to playing things like 'When You're Smiling' 'Baby Face' etc. you will make people happy and you will make money, if that is what you want to do.

Austin said:

IDK. I've always wanted to be a composer, and I think the banjo deserves more respect than it gets. I think I just want to play my own music and I thought a fresh sound would be what was needed to make myself stand out as a musician in that world.

IAN SALTER said:

Austin, why do you want to achieve it on the banjo?

[Joel Hooks]

1+ what Jody wrote above.

Farland attempted to overcome the staccato nature of the banjo with tremolo.  Not only did this not really work, he ruined his hands in the process having to tape a leather pick to his index finger to keep up with his incessant tremolo.  Tremolo on banjo does not sound like a sustained note, it sounds like a bunch of staccato notes played in succession.  The same with Spanish guitar a-m-i tremolo. 

If you want sustain, play the flute or violin. 

The banjo is what it is. 

[Austin]

Yeah I'm aware. Banjos have more sustain now than they did back then tho. Don't get me wrong they can't sustain a note like a violin can, but they do ring out longer. 

Joel Hooks said:

1+ what Jody wrote above.

Farland attempted to overcome the staccato nature of the banjo with tremolo.  Not only did this not really work, he ruined his hands in the process having to tape a leather pick to his index finger to keep up with his incessant tremolo.  Tremolo on banjo does not sound like a sustained note, it sounds like a bunch of staccato notes played in succession.  The same with Spanish guitar a-m-i tremolo. 

If you want sustain, play the flute or violin. 

The banjo is what it is. 

[Austin]

Yeah I guess you're right, but he also played well established pieces within the Canon while defining that Canon. 

I realize every instrument has limitations, but I have never felt limited by the banjo.

Jody Stecher said:

Can't just play arrangements: I guess that's why Segovia was such a flop and never made a career.

The banjo has no limitations:  Every instrument has limitations. Every individual thing in this world has limitations. If that were not the case then every *thing* would be *everything*.   The banjo has a characteristic voice, modified by the type of build and setup. Within that voice it has a limited number of tone colors. It will never have the variety of a pipe organ's colors.  Its range is limited to 3 octaves on a 22 fret instrument. It will never have the range of a piano.  A banjo is designed to have a short sustain. It will never have the sustain of a bowed instrument or even a guitar.   The banjo has a limited dynamic range. It will never be as loud as a highland bagpipe.

These are facts. They are not problems. Not at all. These limits are what makes a banjo what it is, and the banjo is a good thing. 

Austin said:

I am VERY aware of Farland. The thing is in my eyes 2 things were against him. 1.) You need to compose actual repertoire within the idiom you want to establish a canon for the instrument in if that makes sense and have those compositions played very often. You can't just arrange and perform arrangements. and 2.) The technology wasn't there yet. Recording tech could not capture the full range of expression one could put into banjo playing. Therefore, recordings had no real nuance compared to today. Also, about being "limited" by the banjo. I've never felt that way or looked at it with such a perspective. Just as Ysaye, Ernst and Paganini looked at the violin, arguably even more "limited", as a very powerful expressive tool, so too do I look at the banjo. With a banjo in my hands there are no perceivable limitations other than those of my current abilities and musical imagination.

Richard William Ineson said:

Austin, you do know that Alfred Farland tried all this 'elevation of the banjo' stuff around the turn of the 19th century, and 'nearly killed the banjo stone dead' as someone (could have been Van Eps or Ossman) said, as a result. Don't do it, it will break your heart and do nothing for the banjo. Stick to playing things like 'When You're Smiling' 'Baby Face' etc. you will make people happy and you will make money, if that is what you want to do.

Austin said:

IDK. I've always wanted to be a composer, and I think the banjo deserves more respect than it gets. I think I just want to play my own music and I thought a fresh sound would be what was needed to make myself stand out as a musician in that world.

IAN SALTER said:

Austin, why do you want to achieve it on the banjo?

[IAN SALTER]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=u9EJOzEXTgE&list=PLiNeEis1npnDXza...

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=DRfzittQ4Wc&list=PLiNeEis1npnDXza...

I tried and then gave up trying to explain my reason for posting this.