Isn't it great what you find lurking in the depths of your computer?

[thereallyniceman]

This is all you need to know to play Classic Banjo  ;-)

[Trapdoor2]

It makes me wonder how many wives and mothers made their banjoistic husbands/kids practice with their heads tilted "a little more to the left, dear..."

[Jody Stecher]

The thumb at rest on some hands is straight. On others it is bent forward as in illustration 5. And still others, including my own right thumb, are bent "backwards" away from the palm. If I kept my thumb straight as in illustration 4 I would soon  acquire tendonitis or a similar injury.  The equivalent bad advice about thumb position is given by some instructors of clawhammer technique. They advise the player to always use the bent thumb position in illustration 5. But it turns out that the expert players who do this have thumbs that are naturally bent that way when the hand is at rest.

I also disagree about never allowing the thumb to pick behind the first two fingers. That hand position is useful for rapidly alternating between thumb and index. When done with *my* hand, the sound is better and the hand feels more relaxed.  I usually use the prescribed position but I change it when it helps to do so.

I also disagree about picking with the tips of the fingers. If I did that the nails would sometimes interfere. I pick just a bit lower on the finger, partially on the pad and partially on the lower part of the tip.  It is a stress-free position and the tone produced is more satisfying than when only the tip contacts the string.

In short, there is no such thing as a "normal hand" or a "correctly formed hand".  That being the case there cannot be a "correct " hand position. 

I do half  agree about placing the banjo on the right thigh. For *me* that is optimal.  I have always done that. It is natural and comfortable.   But people with long arms place the banjo front and center, resting on both thighs.   It works for them and I don't think they should shift their banjo off to the right because that is "correct". 

[Joel Hooks]

I go back and forth on rim placement.  Generally it is right thigh, but I will also have the rim sitting between my legs, which are pushed together (not spread apart which would cause me to slouch) with my left leg elevated on a footstool/rest. And my third position is to cross my left over my right which forms the perfect place for the banjo to sit with no support needed from my right forearm. 

I think the important part is to not hunch or slouch.  I see people do this and it look like it causes them trouble taking full breaths of air, something needed to continue living. 

[Jody Stecher]

Over many years of teaching people to play banjo and other instruments I have realized that a sizable portion of problems students have— maybe 50%— arise from not breathing.  And telling people to breathe produces no positive results.  Saying "breathe" is like yelling at blood or lymph and demanding that it circulate. No. What works is when I tell them to refrain from not breathing. One can consciously, deliberately, cease the activities and postures that curtail full breathing, 

I have one vocal student who regularly raises her head as the pitch rises and lowers it when the melody goes downward. Both positions have a negative impact on the sound. So far I have had limited success in getting her to face forward when singing.

Joel Hooks said:

I think the important part is to not hunch or slouch.  I see people do this and it look like it causes them trouble taking full breaths of air, something needed to continue living. 

[thereallyniceman]

It seems that Joe had the primate "opposible banjo player's thumb" too.

And maybe TBJ TOO?

[Jody Stecher]

Good discovery, Ian!  If it's good enough for Joe Morley and Tarrant Bailey Junior, it's good enough for me. I will keep on being incorrect knowing I am in good company.  But really it has nothing to do with "good enough".  Playing with a straight  thumb could only be done with my right hand at a quarter speed or slower. And it would hurt. 

thereallyniceman said:

It seems that Joe had the primate "opposible banjo player's thumb" too.

And maybe TBJ TOO?

[Steve Harrison]

Hi Jody, I agree with you about there not being a 'normal' and I'm a case in point. I have very large hands and due to an old rugby injury I sustained in my youth, the first joint on my second finger right hand is deformed in that when I close my fingers towards the palm, it twists about 15 degrees towards the first finger. This makes they playing of triplets and some rapid playing problematic. I compensate for this by shifting my right hand position when necessary and making more use of my thumb. When I first started my adventure into classic banjo,I had the pleasure of spending the day with Bill Ball at his home in Bristol and he gave me invaluable playing advice. Bill told me that when he was 15, he saw Joe Morley playing at a concert and this influenced the way that he played. Bill always played with a floating right hand and never placed his 4th finger on the velum tucking his 3rd and 4th fingers into his palm, whether this is how Morley played I didn't think to ask him at the time. I always play with a floating right hand and place my banjo on my right thigh as it makes it easier to adjust my right hand playing position....Steve. 

Jody Stecher said:

The thumb at rest on some hands is straight. On others it is bent forward as in illustration 5. And still others, including my own right thumb, are bent "backwards" away from the palm. If I kept my thumb straight as in illustration 4 I would soon  acquire tendonitis or a similar injury.  The equivalent bad advice about thumb position is given by some instructors of clawhammer technique. They advise the player to always use the bent thumb position in illustration 5. But it turns out that the expert players who do this have thumbs that are naturally bent that way when the hand is at rest.

I also disagree about never allowing the thumb to pick behind the first two fingers. That hand position is useful for rapidly alternating between thumb and index. When done with *my* hand, the sound is better and the hand feels more relaxed.  I usually use the prescribed position but I change it when it helps to do so.

I also disagree about picking with the tips of the fingers. If I did that the nails would sometimes interfere. I pick just a bit lower on the finger, partially on the pad and partially on the lower part of the tip.  It is a stress-free position and the tone produced is more satisfying than when only the tip contacts the string.

In short, there is no such thing as a "normal hand" or a "correctly formed hand".  That being the case there cannot be a "correct " hand position. 

I do half  agree about placing the banjo on the right thigh. For *me* that is optimal.  I have always done that. It is natural and comfortable.   But people with long arms place the banjo front and center, resting on both thighs.   It works for them and I don't think they should shift their banjo off to the right because that is "correct". 

[Jody Stecher]

I play with a free hand, with the 4th finger on the vellum, with the 3rd finger on the vellum, with both 3rd and 4th fingers on the vellum, all depending on circumstance and what feels or sounds best. This is usually intuitive.  And when I do contact the vellum with 1 or 2 fingers it is not always in the same place. I've even done it on the tailpiece side of the bridge, though I don't think I've done that  in many years.
Steve Harrison said:

Hi Jody, I agree with you about there not being a 'normal' and I'm a case in point. I have very large hands and due to an old rugby injury I sustained in my youth, the first joint on my second finger right hand is deformed in that when I close my fingers towards the palm, it twists about 15 degrees towards the first finger. This makes they playing of triplets and some rapid playing problematic. I compensate for this by shifting my right hand position when necessary and making more use of my thumb. When I first started my adventure into classic banjo,I had the pleasure of spending the day with Bill Ball at his home in Bristol and he gave me invaluable playing advice. Bill told me that when he was 15, he saw Joe Morley playing at a concert and this influenced the way that he played. Bill always played with a floating right hand and never placed his 4th finger on the velum tucking his 3rd and 4th fingers into his palm, whether this is how Morley played I didn't think to ask him at the time. I always play with a floating right hand and place my banjo on my right thigh as it makes it easier to adjust my right hand playing position....Steve. 

Jody Stecher said:

The thumb at rest on some hands is straight. On others it is bent forward as in illustration 5. And still others, including my own right thumb, are bent "backwards" away from the palm. If I kept my thumb straight as in illustration 4 I would soon  acquire tendonitis or a similar injury.  The equivalent bad advice about thumb position is given by some instructors of clawhammer technique. They advise the player to always use the bent thumb position in illustration 5. But it turns out that the expert players who do this have thumbs that are naturally bent that way when the hand is at rest.

I also disagree about never allowing the thumb to pick behind the first two fingers. That hand position is useful for rapidly alternating between thumb and index. When done with *my* hand, the sound is better and the hand feels more relaxed.  I usually use the prescribed position but I change it when it helps to do so.

I also disagree about picking with the tips of the fingers. If I did that the nails would sometimes interfere. I pick just a bit lower on the finger, partially on the pad and partially on the lower part of the tip.  It is a stress-free position and the tone produced is more satisfying than when only the tip contacts the string.

In short, there is no such thing as a "normal hand" or a "correctly formed hand".  That being the case there cannot be a "correct " hand position. 

I do half  agree about placing the banjo on the right thigh. For *me* that is optimal.  I have always done that. It is natural and comfortable.   But people with long arms place the banjo front and center, resting on both thighs.   It works for them and I don't think they should shift their banjo off to the right because that is "correct". 

[Mark Dion]

Courtesy the Banjo Tutor Books -

"Support the neck in the hollow of the left hand, between the finger and thumb as shown in illustration No. 2." F. J.Bacon, Paramount Method for Banjo page 7.

"The banjo arm must not be allowed to sink into the hollow between the thumb and forefinger." Emile Grimshaw, The Banjo and How to Play It page 8.

I'm so confused. :-)
(Not really. I can't fret some chords if I don't follow the form mentioned in Grimshaw.)

Thank you for this site.

[thereallyniceman]

Well spotted Mark! I agree that the neck should NOT rest in the hollow between the thumb and first finger of the left hand.

Here is a video I made YEARS ago explaining why! 

[Joel Hooks]

So is the "support the neck in the hollow" the same as what I call a baseball bat grip with thumb over the top?  Many plectrum guitarists (steel string Spanish guitar played with a pick) do this to stop/fret strings with their thumb over the top I think.  I also see this with bluegrass banjoists, old time banjoists, and classic banjoists who are either "by ear" self taught or came from BG or OT first. 

When I watch them play I can't help but notice that they are constantly shifting and tilting their wrist when they need to chord or play something more than just a monophonic string of notes.  Or they fight the awkward position and fumble through.  

[Jody Stecher]

 As with the right hand, the best left hand position varies according to the person and the hand. "It all depends".  I often use the neck in the hollow position. It is free from tension and causes me no pain or discomfort. I've been using it for 66 or 67 years. So far so good.  People who use the "correct" position as taught to classical guitarists often get tendonitis as a result.  But not all do. It All Depends.

Sometimes I have thumb over the top sometimes not. Yes I shift positions and my wrist is sometimes tilted, sometimes straight. Everyone who plays tennis or washes dishes, or moves objects from one place to another or drives a car or brushes their teeth  or uses their hands for anything shifts positions quickly and easily.One advantage I can see to a fixed left hand position is that it looks great. And it seems to be helpful to some players. But it's not for everyone. 

I notice that in Ian's video he keeps his thumb on the back of the neck but he also bends his wrist to get different first position chords. You can see this clearly when the back of the neck is shown. This means his hand is not locked and consequently his technique will never cause him pain. Moving the wrist is sensible, not wrong.

Joel Hooks said:

So is the "support the neck in the hollow" the same as what I call a baseball bat grip with thumb over the top?  Many plectrum guitarists (steel string Spanish guitar played with a pick) do this to stop/fret strings with their thumb over the top I think.  I also see this with bluegrass banjoists, old time banjoists, and classic banjoists who are either "by ear" self taught or came from BG or OT first. 

When I watch them play I can't help but notice that they are constantly shifting and tilting their wrist when they need to chord or play something more than just a monophonic string of notes.  Or they fight the awkward position and fumble through.