Life In Louisiana..Emile Grimshaw

[Steve Harrison]

This is my take on one of my my favourite Grimshaw tunes, it differs slightly from the way that Jody plays it on his video and I've made some changes to the score to reflect that. It may not be to everyone's taste but I rarely play anything note for note as written without adding or changing bits of my own. This was the second classic banjo tune that I learned to play having previously played mainly in the melodic style....Steve. 

[Jody Stecher]

You raise an interesting point, Steve. If I remember right I played it note-for-note from the printed music although I  may have chosen different fingerings here and there, and perhaps there was an occasional flight-of-fancy.  If we compare the recordings of Van Eps or Vess Ossman, or any of the early recorded banjoists with the written music there were usually small changes.  This is in contrast with the views of those in the Classic Banjo field who describe adhering to the written score as a defining characteristic of the genre.

[Steve Harrison]

Hi Jody, you make a valid point about the required fingering. Over the years I've developed arthritis in my hands which does impact on my ability to play as I once did. The first joint of my 2nd. finger RH is particularly troublesome consequently I have to improvise the way I play some passages which usually involves making greater use of the thumb....Steve. 

Jody Stecher said:

You raise an interesting point, Steve. If I remember right I played it note-for-note from the printed music although I  may have chosen different fingerings here and there, and perhaps there was an occasional flight-of-fancy.  If we compare the recordings of Van Eps or Vess Ossman, or any of the early recorded banjoists with the written music there were usually small changes.  This is in contrast with the views of those in the Classic Banjo field who describe adhering to the written score as a defining characteristic of the genre.

[Trapdoor2]

I tend to think of my banjo life as evolutionary, quite often while learning any given tune. I almost always start with the written score; that's my basis. If there's audio, esp. if it is "original", I will tend to make some changes based on the audio, as I tend to perceive the audio as the 'gold standard'. I trust my ears and adjust accordingly.

At the last ABF rally, I played a bit of "Fun on the Wabash", and someone pointed out that I wasn't playing the right notes in the intro. By that time, I'd been playing it for years...not remembering anything about how I learned it. When I got home, I went back to the sheet music and, yup, there was a note I'd changed. After a bit of study, I figured out that my ears didn't like the written note, too dissonant. I had changed it.

In this case, I felt that the offending note was likely a printer error, something that is fairly common. In any case, I have evolved in my thinking to allow myself to 'go ahead' and make those minor changes.

When I'm creating a tablature of a written piece, I'm back to slavishly following the notation...but since I'm effectively creating a fingering map of the tune, I have more of my personal fingering in it. My version of "Sunflower Dance" has "melodic-style" tendencies, for instance (as that is what I evolved thru after Scruggs). If the original published version has fingering, I try hard to follow it...and it took years for me to figure out the various codes (I had no teaching materials and nobody to ask, just piles of old sheet music).

So much of this music has no original audio. That is, if you do not 'hear' what you're reading, you really don't have a clue what the tune is going to be like until you start playing it. I'm strongly influenced by my ears...I have scores of 'starts', tunes where I've keyed in the A part and thought, "meh"...never finished it.

Now I've lost my train of thought. I guess I need another cup of coffee!

[Jody Stecher]

Just a reminder.... especially because several of us here have played the "melodic" bluegrass technique.......that  the English banjoist and composer Joe Morley used this technique and indicated it in his published scores decades before Bill Keith and Bobby Thompson developed or rediscovered it in the USA.  For those who don't know what we're talking about: the essence of this technique is to avoid playing  successive notes on a single string. By continually moving to a different string the sonic effect is more legato and less staccato. The music flows. To achieve this flow it is sometimes necessary to move to a lower string to get a higher note. The left hand moves to an upper fret to get this to happen. It is counter-intuitive at first. There is a valid historical reason for the term "melodic technique " but there is probably a better term since other techniques produce results that are equally melodic.

Trapdoor2 said:

I tend to think of my banjo life as evolutionary, quite often while learning any given tune. I almost always start with the written score; that's my basis. If there's audio, esp. if it is "original", I will tend to make some changes based on the audio, as I tend to perceive the audio as the 'gold standard'. I trust my ears and adjust accordingly.

At the last ABF rally, I played a bit of "Fun on the Wabash", and someone pointed out that I wasn't playing the right notes in the intro. By that time, I'd been playing it for years...not remembering anything about how I learned it. When I got home, I went back to the sheet music and, yup, there was a note I'd changed. After a bit of study, I figured out that my ears didn't like the written note, too dissonant. I had changed it.

In this case, I felt that the offending note was likely a printer error, something that is fairly common. In any case, I have evolved in my thinking to allow myself to 'go ahead' and make those minor changes.

When I'm creating a tablature of a written piece, I'm back to slavishly following the notation...but since I'm effectively creating a fingering map of the tune, I have more of my personal fingering in it. My version of "Sunflower Dance" has "melodic-style" tendencies, for instance (as that is what I evolved thru after Scruggs). If the original published version has fingering, I try hard to follow it...and it took years for me to figure out the various codes (I had no teaching materials and nobody to ask, just piles of old sheet music).

So much of this music has no original audio. That is, if you do not 'hear' what you're reading, you really don't have a clue what the tune is going to be like until you start playing it. I'm strongly influenced by my ears...I have scores of 'starts', tunes where I've keyed in the A part and thought, "meh"...never finished it.

Now I've lost my train of thought. I guess I need another cup of coffee!

[Steve Harrison]

Hi Jody, if you look at some of my arrangements, you'll see that I often mix and match the two styles..Steve.

Jody Stecher said:

Just a reminder.... especially because several of us here have played the "melodic" bluegrass technique.......that  the English banjoist and composer Joe Morley used this technique and indicated it in his published scores decades before Bill Keith and Bobby Thompson developed or rediscovered it in the USA.  For those who don't know what we're talking about: the essence of this technique is to avoid playing  successive notes on a single string. By continually moving to a different string the sonic effect is more legato and less staccato. The music flows. To achieve this flow it is sometimes necessary to move to a lower string to get a higher note. The left hand moves to an upper fret to get this to happen. It is counter-intuitive at first. There is a valid historical reason for the term "melodic technique " but there is probably a better term since other techniques produce results that are equally melodic.

Trapdoor2 said:

I tend to think of my banjo life as evolutionary, quite often while learning any given tune. I almost always start with the written score; that's my basis. If there's audio, esp. if it is "original", I will tend to make some changes based on the audio, as I tend to perceive the audio as the 'gold standard'. I trust my ears and adjust accordingly.

At the last ABF rally, I played a bit of "Fun on the Wabash", and someone pointed out that I wasn't playing the right notes in the intro. By that time, I'd been playing it for years...not remembering anything about how I learned it. When I got home, I went back to the sheet music and, yup, there was a note I'd changed. After a bit of study, I figured out that my ears didn't like the written note, too dissonant. I had changed it.

In this case, I felt that the offending note was likely a printer error, something that is fairly common. In any case, I have evolved in my thinking to allow myself to 'go ahead' and make those minor changes.

When I'm creating a tablature of a written piece, I'm back to slavishly following the notation...but since I'm effectively creating a fingering map of the tune, I have more of my personal fingering in it. My version of "Sunflower Dance" has "melodic-style" tendencies, for instance (as that is what I evolved thru after Scruggs). If the original published version has fingering, I try hard to follow it...and it took years for me to figure out the various codes (I had no teaching materials and nobody to ask, just piles of old sheet music).

So much of this music has no original audio. That is, if you do not 'hear' what you're reading, you really don't have a clue what the tune is going to be like until you start playing it. I'm strongly influenced by my ears...I have scores of 'starts', tunes where I've keyed in the A part and thought, "meh"...never finished it.

Now I've lost my train of thought. I guess I need another cup of coffee!

[Joel Hooks]

RE: Stick to the score-- I am not one of those.  Now, I might notice when someone deviates, but good for them!  Heck it is their music, they can do what they want with it-- and I do the same.

That said, when someone learns a piece entirely by ear from some recording, I can usually tell as they will miss things that are in the score.

My general approach is to work on what the composer/arranger put down first, then change or add what I like. 

[Jody Stecher]

That's what I do too, including music I learned by ear.  After years of misremembering and performing and even recording misremembered music I realized in retrospect that I had missed some of the best parts. So first I go to the source, both aural and written, and I learn it like that, or at least play it that way. Then if I want to make changes I know what I'm changing and why. 

Joel Hooks said:

RE: Stick to the score-- I am not one of those.  Now, I might notice when someone deviates, but good for them!  Heck it is their music, they can do what they want with it-- and I do the same.

That said, when someone learns a piece entirely by ear from some recording, I can usually tell as they will miss things that are in the score.

My general approach is to work on what the composer/arranger put down first, then change or add what I like. 

[Jody Stecher]

 A sensible approach! 

Steve Harrison said:

Hi Jody, if you look at some of my arrangements, you'll see that I often mix and match the two styles..Steve.