OT 3 finger, classic and bluegrass style playing

[Classic Banjo]

Hello, 

 Is anyone able to explain and or highlight the differences between OT 3 finger, classic and bluegrass style playing?

I've posted the same question on Banjo Hangout OT forum so it will be interesting to see what the OT crowd think as opposed to the Classic style fraternity.

Regards

Eric

[Jody Stecher]

The techniques overlap a bit. The contexts are different and the sonic ambience is different.  Bluegrass banjo has a corner devoted to solo playing but it is primarily a skill developed for backing up a singer, or supporting another instrumentalist, and as part of a band. Bluegrass is ensemble music and the banjo has a particular set of functions in the ensemble. When solos ("breaks") are taken the right hand is highly patterned and there are also a set of left hand phrases or motifs that typically appear in the solos and in the backup as well. Classic banjo is solo music. There will be accompanists but the banjo is front and center. Obviously the tools are different from bluegrass (soft strings, no picks, no capo, different kind of bridge etc). Old time 3 finger picking is of many kinds. Banjos and their setup will vary greatly. The right hand is patterned but less predictably than in bluegrass.  It may be played as solo music, as dance music with or without a fiddle or a band and the player is likely to sing.  Old time banjo historically has been often associated with song and this is true for 3 finger old time playing as well as other techniques. But really all my answers are superflous. Just listen to good exponents of each type of banjo playing.  The differences in the styles are self-evident. One is unlikely to mistake Dock Boggs for Vess Ossman,  or mistake JD Crowe for Fred Van Eps, or think that Bill Ball sounds like Ralph Stanley.

[carrie horgan]

Yes, like Jody, I think of 'bluegrass-style playing' as being 'playing banjo in an ensemble' - all the folk instruments in a bluegrass band have a defined role e.g. the banjo tends to 'vamp' chords quietly behind the mandolin and providing rolling back-up behind the fiddle.  Bluegrass banjo techniques include playing melody notes within continuous, syncopated roll patterns (Scruggs) and also melodic/chromatic style (Bill Keith) and single-string (Don Reno).   

I find it hard to define old-time 3 finger.  I guess it just means playing American folk music on the banjo using finger-picking (but without the distinctive bluegrass licks and drive) - I'm think Obray Ramsey, Dock Boggs, Charlie Poole but they are all pretty 'unique'.  Actually, clawhammer is the most popular old-time style (especially 'Round Peak') with 2-finger coming a close second.  Have you heard Nick Hornbuckle?  He's a great 2-finger player who plays in the old-time genre.

I'm just getting to grips with classic banjo but I know it involves chords (lots of them) and, although there are arpeggios, it is not the same a BG banjo's continuous roll patterns.... I will let others hop in here.   

[Jody Stecher]

It's a bit off topic, but for the sake of accuracy I should point out that Round Peak is a teensy area in North Carolina which never produced more than a handful of banjo players. Camps and books and videos have altered the perception but the fact remains that the Round Peak style and repertoire is really a very local thing as well as a recent development. The originators considered themselves to be very up-to-date, and stylish.  I don't think that in the last 150 years any variety of clawhammer banjo, or all varieties taken together ever was a dominant style or technique. Especially for song accompaniment I think there have been more oldtime up-pickers than downstroke players. Some used thumb and index, some used thumb, index, and middle, some used the ring finger and even pinky from time to time. As Carrie says, they were all different. It's like how people cooked potatoes or made cornbread. No one dominant recipe.

[Trapdoor2]

LOL. I once attended a famous 2-finger picker's class (at a banjo camp). He handed out a bunch of TAB and I was able to play it almost instantly...it was three-finger (much of it Scruggs) but modified to be played using only two fingers.

He said, "You can play this stuff already!" and I said, "I didn't know you were cheating..."

[Jody Stecher]

Sonic means relating to sound. Ambience means character and atmosphere, usually of a place. Sonic atmosphere means the character and atmosphere of sound(s). 

Eric Womersley said:

Jody

Please pardon my ignorance, what does sonic ambience mean?

Thanks

Eric

[Trapdoor2]

Eric, check out the playing of Don Borchelt...finest 3-finger OT player extant (as far as I'm concerned). His website: http://www.banjr.com/

[Steve Harrison]

As a youngster, I was packed off to music lessons to learn the piano accordion. I had an excellent music teacher who made sure I'd got a grip of the fundamentals of music, both theory and practical. I was taught to play many styles from classical to jazz and my own preference which was traditional/folk music. The point I'm making is that once proficient on  any instrument, you should be able to play most genres and styles of music.

Classic banjo could be viewed as the gold standard for banjo which once mastered, opens the door to everything else.......Steve. 

[Jackie Cook]

Interesting discussion: I, too, see Classic Banjo as the gold standard of banjo playing. It is my favorite style, although I can play the Scruggs rolls, as I learned this style from the beginning. After beginning with that style many years ago, I found it difficult to detect the melody when it was caught up in all those rolls. Since I am not a singer, I prefer to let the banjo provide the melody notes.

It's good to meet another accordion player. Do you still play? I played professionally for many years on accordion as a part of a music duo. It is a great instrument! I really love Classic Style banjo.

[Trapdoor2]

How many other instruments have discussions on stylistic differences? Do accordion players fight over whether they play Frankie Yankovic style or Mogens Ellegaard style?

[Jackie Cook]

I know a lot of accordion players, but I don't know if they fight over anyone's particular style. They are a great bunch of folks. If they haven't discovered Classic Banjo, they are really missing out, I think. I love the accordion, but I do enjoy getting out from under the weight of it on my shoulders, occasionally. Playing Classic banjo is really great!

[Steve Harrison]

Hi Jackie, I still play, especially if I want to p..s off the neighbours! Mainly for my own enjoyment these days although I occasionally play for local traditional dancing sides. As I've got older, I find the banjo less punishing to my back and shoulders than my accordion and is now my instrument of first choice....Steve.

Jackie Cook said:

Interesting discussion: I, too, see Classic Banjo as the gold standard of banjo playing. It is my favorite style, although I can play the Scruggs rolls, as I learned this style from the beginning. After beginning with that style many years ago, I found it difficult to detect the melody when it was caught up in all those rolls. Since I am not a singer, I prefer to let the banjo provide the melody notes.

It's good to meet another accordion player. Do you still play? I played professionally for many years on accordion as a part of a music duo. It is a great instrument! I really love Classic Style banjo.

[Joel Hooks]

I would think any instrument that allows itself (or marketed as) a pseudo "folk" ambiance.  

Violin-- yep

Guitar-- yep

Piano-- ???

I read a interesting book titled "Squeeze This, a Cultural History of the Accordion in America" and have come to the conclusion that it was written using the exact same outline as "America's Instrument."  In fact, I think all histories of popular instruments use this same formula virtually chapter by chapter.  

The major point I took from it is that the keyboard version was a lesson based popular instrument backed by heavy marketing with lesson packages and upgrading instruments.  It was a hugely popular instrument that was capable of playing all "types" of music.  As any fad, the next generation sees it as silly-- only for playing polkas and "Lady of Spain" (their "Foggy Mt. Breakdown").  The accordion community attributes the cliched (read corny) version to the hands of Lawrence Welk.  And that is a shame as it is a fascinating instrument when taken serious.

Compare that to our banjo.  Same story.  It went from a versatile popular instrument (concert/dance/personal entertainment) to a silly country "comedic prop" (as our bluegrassers are so fond of saying, over and over again).  The candy striped/ sleeve garter/ straw hat wearing plectra players did not do much for the image either.

I'm not so certain that dressing in "reenacting" outfits do much for it as well (and I've done this!).

  

Trapdoor2 said:

How many other instruments have discussions on stylistic differences? Do accordion players fight over whether they play Frankie Yankovic style or Mogens Ellegaard style?