At A Georgia Camp Meeting Kerry Mills...help?

[thereallyniceman]

I received this interesting email from Site Member Thom Edgar who has attached a TAB version of the Kerry Mills’ “At a Georgia Camp Meeting”

 

Perhaps we have TAB experts here who may be able to help Thom with use of TablEddit software (eh, Marc?)

Thom's  TablEdit file is available here:

GCM TablEdit .tef download

Thom's full TABLATURE is now in the MUSIC LIBRARY

 

Copy of Thom's email:

 

I've made a tabulation of the copy of Kerry Mills' "At a Georgia Campmeeting" that you have in the Music Library.  It is my first tabulation using TablEdit, but I think it is an accurate transcript except three points.  

 

1.  I have not been able to figure out slurs or legato markings.  All the ties are correct, but I just don't have a handle on the slurs yet.  There are maybe eight of them.

 

2.  In the music score, the last note in measure 31 is shown as an A, while a similar run in measure 23 shows a B.  Another piano source shows that it should be a B as well.  I have made it the B.  I don't know of any way to show the deviation in the score.

 

3.  The score shows an A below middle C in measure 75.  I can't get that on my banjo, so while it shows that third note drops an octave, I play it like the three groups before it.

 

I have left it in .tef format, but could convert to pdf if you would prefer.  I think most people who would be active would have tefview anyway.  

 

A little of my history.

 

I built a banjo when I was in 7th grade, 50 years ago.  I made the pot out of fiberglass wrapped around one of my mother's hat boxes.  I played a little then, but mainly some folk music, and never very serious.  This September, I was listening to some ragtime on YouTube when I came across your Palladium March and then Grace and Beauty.  Those two, and I was hooked.  It was the sound and style that I wanted way back then, but the music was not very available.  It sat for 50 years with steel strings until I just put Nylgut on it, and it is as smooth as butter.  Really doesn't sound too bad for what it is.  

 

In the mean time, I am a life member of the Lute Society of America and was a member of the Lute Society from 1972-5.  Unfortunately, my finger skills have never kept up with interest in the tablature.

 

Thanks for your site, your videos and your enthusiasm for this wonderful music.

 

Thom Edgar

______________________________

Thanks Thom.

Ian, thereallyniceman

[Mike Moss]

What a nice e-mail, and a very generous contribution to boot. It's great to see there are people out there who love the style. Thanks Thom!

[Trapdoor2]

Let's see if I can help.

1.) snaps and slurs are shown as "P" or "H" in TablEdit. However, those designators will not appear with the note flags pointing up. Reverse the flags and a tie with a "P" or "H" will appear.

2.) Errors happen. I think the B is correct.

3.) The original was written in "American Notation", that is, as a transposing instrument. The way I get around this in TablEdit is to "retune" the banjo to eAEG#B and enter the notation as written. After the piece is complete, I "retune" back to gCGBD, clicking the impact button to "notes". Then you have to go back and remove a couple of sharps in the Key Signature.

It is a pretty easy thing to do, you just have to get used to it. I like TablEdit a lot but it does have some quirks!

I tabbed out AAGCM some years ago but never learned it. AAGCM is used in the blackface scene (often edited out) of the awesome James Cagney movie, "Yankee Doodle Dandy" (1942).

[Trapdoor2]

Well, I forgot to address the "legato" question.

TablEdit does have a legato feature, but I have not found it to be very satisfactory. Basically, you put your cursor on the starting note and right-click it. This opens a selection box which has "Legato" down at the bottom. Select "Legato" and you get another box with some choices such as duration, amplitude, etc. Once you've made your choices, accept it and you'll get your legato marking...which will probably not be correct. Double-clicking on the start note again will re-open the legato box and you can make changes, etc.

It does work...but it often takes a lot more time to get it to look decent than it is worth, in my opinion. I find this is true for several of the program's features (such as adding dynamics to the MIDI, position markings, etc.).

[Joel Hooks]

I've not paid attention to tabs lately, but I have been playing with this arrangement and wanted to compare fingerings.

It looks like Mr. Edgar tabbed this as though it was English Notation written in A.

I don't know how much of a difference it makes as far as playability, but as stated my Marc S this was written in American notation.

 

[Thomas Edgar]

Thanks Trapdoor2!

1)  I had figured out the ties or slurs ok, at least they showed up in the score and the tab.  It was the legato "feature" that I was missing.  I must say, it was not intuitive.  Using your instructions, I tried it in several locations and it seemed to have looked worse after it was approximately in the close to right place.  That's why I sent the tef file as well, if some one wants to put those in, please feel free to do so.  So I agree with you humble opinion. :)

2)  Thanks!

3)  I seem to have stepped into a can of worms here.  I didn't realize that the music was transposed.  I saw an A, I played an A.  It seemed to have worked.  Since I have read Joel's comment above, I searched more intently and found the tab that you did before.  As I stated in my first email, I made my banjo when I was in 7th grade, and while it sounds reasonable up to the 12th fret, it loses a lot quickly beyond that.  I wouldn't call my 17th, 18th and 19th frets anything to do with music at that point.  In fact, after I finished to the first two parts, I dropped it down to G and it worked well there, until I got to the trio. 

Anyway, if it is controversial by not being in the "right" key, I could ask Ian to take it down.  Or maybe put a note along side it stating that it should be played in C rather than A. 

I guess the obvious question I have is, how can you tell that it is supposed to be played in C if it is written in A.  (Or is it like a standard orchestral instrument like a B-flat clarinet that plays a whole step below what is written?) 

Finally, thanks for comment on Yankee Doodle Dandy.  Georgia Campmeeting is a quintessential banjo piece to me, but I couldn't remember why.  And you nailed it for me.  That was it. 

Thanks for your replies. 
 

Thom Edgar
Trapdoor2 said:

Let's see if I can help.

1.) snaps and slurs are shown as "P" or "H" in TablEdit. However, those designators will not appear with the note flags pointing up. Reverse the flags and a tie with a "P" or "H" will appear.

2.) Errors happen. I think the B is correct.

3.) The original was written in "American Notation", that is, as a transposing instrument. The way I get around this in TablEdit is to "retune" the banjo to eAEG#B and enter the notation as written. After the piece is complete, I "retune" back to gCGBD, clicking the impact button to "notes". Then you have to go back and remove a couple of sharps in the Key Signature.

It is a pretty easy thing to do, you just have to get used to it. I like TablEdit a lot but it does have some quirks!

I tabbed out AAGCM some years ago but never learned it. AAGCM is used in the blackface scene (often edited out) of the awesome James Cagney movie, "Yankee Doodle Dandy" (1942).

[Thomas Edgar]

Thanks Mike!
 
Mike Moss said:

What a nice e-mail, and a very generous contribution to boot. It's great to see there are people out there who love the style. Thanks Thom!

[Jody Stecher]

You can tell by looking for the little flag symbol that indicates the short string. If it appears on the stem of G you know that the notation is for C tuning. If it appears on the stem of an E you know you are looking at notation for A tuning.

You can also tell by range: how high or low does this banjo solo go?

If you see any pitch that is lower than C (one line below the bottom line of the staff), that is a B natural, a B flat, or an A, you will know right away that this cannot be a specimen of C tuning notation because C is lowest note in that tuning (gCGBD).  If you see, for instance,  a high C that would be gotten at the 22nd fret in C tuning you know this is C tuning because this is beyond the range of A tuning, especially since it was typical for 19th century banjos to have fewer than 22 frets. 

You can also tell by context, by which I mean year and country and the appearance of the sheet music.

 In the 19th century banjos were tuned lower than they are now but the strings were in the same relationship to each other. Pitch steadily rose from the lowest string being G or even F to A and in the late 19th century to C. The UK decided early to use C notation. The USA held on to A notation for quite a long time after the actual pitch had risen to C. If you read older posts here and listen to 2  hours of classic banjo at random you'll catch on that playing in A major when tuned cCGBD is unlikely. Three sharps in the key signature usually means (what is now called)  C fingering with the strings tuned three half steps low.

Thomas Edgar said:

I guess the obvious question I have is, how can you tell that it is supposed to be played in C if it is written in A.  (Or is it like a standard orchestral instrument like a B-flat clarinet that plays a whole step below what is written?) 

[Joel Hooks]

Please don't take my statement as critical!  It just caught me off guard. If it plays the way you transposed it, then play away!

To add to what Jody wrote (and hopefully not confuse matters)-- by the 1880s banjos in the US were beginning to commonly be pitched to "C."  That is to say that the fourth string was at C, the same as "standard" pitch today.

The notation system had been established in the US as written in "A."  My research has me believing that Swaim Stewart had much to do with the holding out as he was first to publish and sell affordable sheet music for the banjo (as apposed to instruction books and folios) and he liked the A notation. Others followed his lead.

It was also in the 1880s that the British were really getting into the banjo, so they published music written at pitch (well, in the treble clef, at pitch is an octave lower).

So this American music in "A"/English music in "C" existed simultaneously.  This created great plagiaristic opportunities for the British (but that is another story).

On March 26, 1907 the American Guild voted to start publishing banjo music in the English system, or "C."

"A" notation was still published, but it would be titled as such. And for a while US publishers would print a piece both ways.

To confuse even more, there are a couple of banjo tutors that are split 50/50 "A" and "C."

I learned to read in "A" and only started working with "C" about a year ago. "A" is my comfort music.

Post some photos of your banjo, we would love to see (and hear) it.

[Jody Stecher]

 Right. There was a period of overlap where players read in A whilst tuned to C. I should have ended my reply with the words "or not".  

Joel Hooks said:

To add to what Jody wrote (and hopefully not confuse matters)-- by the 1880s banjos in the US were beginning to commonly be pitched to "C."  That is to say that the fourth string was at C, the same as "standard" pitch today.