How many people actually play this style?

[Austin]

I'm curious. How many people even know about it? It seems rare to find someone who does.

[John Cohen]

Jody, what you're saying is obviously true within its context and is consonant with my own experiences playing jazz and other improvisational music forms. However, classic style banjo is not jazz, nor is it particularly improvisational. I'll concede that a player who both reads and plays by ear has an obvious leg up over one who only reads, but I don't think that ear playing is the decisive factor here.

[Jody Stecher]

I think it is. 

John Cohen said:

I don't think that ear playing is the decisive factor here.

[IAN SALTER]

Jody, do you remember what it was about classic banjo, that the two individuals said they disliked?

[Jody Stecher]

Yes! Great question. The banjo player said that classic banjo style and repertoire was 'very nice and polite" but lacked the urgency and growl of bluegrass playing.  My response was that this was like complaining that peaches did not taste like chili pepper.  

The scholar said that classic banjo music, especially the contemplative pieces, went contrary to the nature of the banjo. My response, which was unreceived because the feller died,  was that the nature of the banjo goes beyond "boing and twang".  I also think that these contemplative pieces, composed by Cammeyer and others, while playable on other instruments, demonstrably sound best on banjo.  That being the case, they must have been composed according to the nature of the instrument.

IAN SALTER said:

Jody, do you remember what it was about classic banjo, that the two individuals said they disliked?

[Joel Hooks]

I think my use of the word “ignore” was interpreted as “dismissed”.  “Dismissed” assumes acknowledgment.

There is a certain MacArthur “Genius Grant” recipient and musician who has been notably before the public lately that is a good example of what I mean by “ignore”.  This musician had included as part of her act (intentional or not) the roll of authority of banjo history.  Through various videos and interviews with more than a few media outlets, she has repeated a “history of the banjo” that entire redacts or excludes the 50 or so years that would make up the active body of what we call “classic banjo” in addition to perpetuation of myths as fact including the “Snowdens wrote Dixie”.  She leaps and bounds over this major swath of time, i.e. Slave roots to minstrelsy to “old time” with no stops in between.

I understand that this is a nice and tidy version that supports her personal brand.  I also acknowledge our tendency to focus on our own personal interests (in my case,  hyper focus).  Nevertheless, this is a good example of the “ignoring” I am referencing.

There is no attempt to “dismiss” that I can tell. Rather it seems there is a redaction of existence.

I suppose that “dismissal” is evident in many folk narrative situations in that perhaps “folklorists” might dismiss what we call “classic banjo” because they feel it does not fit into the narrative they are building. 

[Jody Stecher]

Many such people are indeed "geniuses" ... at PR and self-promotion. 

In a half-hearted defense of the narrative you describe it's worth pointing out that there are  varieties of old-time  music, including banjo music, that bypass what we call classic banjo, There is a direct line from slave music to minstrelsy to these traditions. There are also lines that bypass minstrel music as well. 

Joel Hooks said:

I think my use of the word “ignore” was interpreted as “dismissed”.  “Dismissed” assumes acknowledgment.

There is a certain MacArthur “Genius Grant” recipient and musician who has been notably before the public lately that is a good example of what I mean by “ignore”.  This musician had included as part of her act (intentional or not) the roll of authority of banjo history.  Through various videos and interviews with more than a few media outlets, she has repeated a “history of the banjo” that entire redacts or excludes the 50 or so years that would make up the active body of what we call “classic banjo” in addition to perpetuation of myths as fact including the “Snowdens wrote Dixie”.  She leaps and bounds over this major swath of time, i.e. Slave roots to minstrelsy to “old time” with no stops in between.

I understand that this is a nice and tidy version that supports her personal brand.  I also acknowledge our tendency to focus on our own personal interests (in my case,  hyper focus).  Nevertheless, this is a good example of the “ignoring” I am referencing.

There is no attempt to “dismiss” that I can tell. Rather it seems there is a redaction of existence.

I suppose that “dismissal” is evident in many folk narrative situations in that perhaps “folklorists” might dismiss what we call “classic banjo” because they feel it does not fit into the narrative they are building. 

[Joel Hooks]

… except for the fact that many of those “old time” Banjoists who were not influenced by classic banjo play on instruments that exist only because classic banjo was a thing.

[Austin]

Indeed. If they truly bypassed classic banjo then they would still be playing on gourd banjos.

Joel Hooks said:

… except for the fact that many of those “old time” Banjoists who were not influenced by classic banjo play on instruments that exist only because classic banjo was a thing.

[John Cohen]

I'll add that there is no clear delineating line between banjo-style playing in minstrelsy and guitar-style in minstrelsy. Plenty of minstrels played guitar-style. So no, there is not a direct line from minstrelsy to old-time that bypasses classic style playing.

[Joel Hooks]

Gourd banjos, being 5 string banjos with gourd bodies, or rather necks in the style of early rimmed banjos graphed to gourd bodies are a recent innovation of Scott Diddlake and Clarke Buehling with no known historical examples to exist prior.  There is one example that was previously believed to fit this description but has since been proven to be not what it was claimed to be.

The current trend of 5 string gourd banjos post dates classic banjo and were created by the hands of a classic banjoist.  Foremost current historian Pete Ross has written about this many times.

Austin said:

Indeed. If they truly bypassed classic banjo then they would still be playing on gourd banjos.

Joel Hooks said:

… except for the fact that many of those “old time” Banjoists who were not influenced by classic banjo play on instruments that exist only because classic banjo was a thing.

[Jody Stecher]

Yes, er no, well, sort of. The operative word here is "many". Another is "when". Another is "where". Most old-time banjo players who were born in the late 19th and early 20th centuries learned to play on home made instruments.  Vellums were possum hides. I can't recall what the hoops were made from. As soon as they could get enough money sure enough they bought banjos made in the northern factories. But the instruments of choice were often Gibson Mastertone banjos with resonators. If it was an open back banjo it was usually a higher model. I'm old enough to have met any number of these people. The simple plain open back banjos of the 19th century were not well thought of. SS Stewart called them "tubs".  Hillbillies called them "old sh** kickers". 

Joel Hooks said:

… except for the fact that many of those “old time” Banjoists who were not influenced by classic banjo play on instruments that exist only because classic banjo was a thing.

[Jody Stecher]

The stroke style derives from the downstroke technique of African-American players. That is not the only stream derived from that. There were banjo players born in the late 19th and early 20th centuries, who learned directly from those black players and/or their descendants. These learners included white, black, and Native American individuals.  A narrative that ignores their existence is no better than one which ignores the classic era.

John Cohen said:

I'll add that there is no clear delineating line between banjo-style playing in minstrelsy and guitar-style in minstrelsy. Plenty of minstrels played guitar-style. So no, there is not a direct line from minstrelsy to old-time that bypasses classic style playing.