Baritone Banjo

[David Trainer]

I've been reading about the Goldtone ML-1 baritone banjo. Something completely new to me. Has anyone used this instrument for classic banjo playing and with nylon strings ? 

Thanks. 

Dave 

[Joel Hooks]

I have to admit that when these came out I just kind of ignored them, dismissing them as a novelty.  This post had me go read the description. 

According to Gold Tone copy, it is "tuned" one octave below the 5th fret of a regular banjo.  That would make it one octave below a Banjeaurine. Which is a interesting concept.

At the last ABF rally, I was tasked to play an instrument that Drew Frech had built that he called a "Bass Banjeaurine" on an orphan Guitar Banjo rim.  The scale, if I remember correctly was 28.5" on a 13" rim.  It was clear, powerful, and frankly, I wanted to string it with regular banjo strings and play it as a standard banjo.  I was playing second banjo parts on it. 

The problem with the Gold Tone is that it is small. Gold tone seems to be locked into the 26.25" scale, which is (more or less) what Gibson used for regular and plectrum banjos.  And that is what they used on this one only attached to a 12" rim.  They seem to have used heavy strings to get the lower pitch.

So, basically, the Gold Tone is just a regular 12" rim banjo with a generic scale and heavy strings.  Having the short scale with 22 frets proud of the rim places the bridge more to the center of the head.

At $1700 you could likely do better if this was something you wanted to explore. 

[David Trainer]

Hi Joel. 

Thanks for your reply - much appreciated. 

I own a couple of very nice Clifford Essex banjos that are of course superb for classic banjo playing. I also play a 5-string Goldtone cello banjo arbitrarily tuned to E which personally I find extremely pleasing when playing Grimshaw and Cammeyer pieces. 

I'm really interested in exploring banjo tunings at least a 5th below the normal G tuning and any instruments that support the lower registers. 

If you [or anyone else] has any recommendations for suitable instruments, I guess with 12 or 13 inch heads, I would love to hear them. 

I totally agree the price tag on the ML-1 is a little on the high side and why I asked the question on this forum. 

Thanks again. 

Dave 

Joel Hooks said:

I have to admit that when these came out I just kind of ignored them, dismissing them as a novelty.  This post had me go read the description. 

According to Gold Tone copy, it is "tuned" one octave below the 5th fret of a regular banjo.  That would make it one octave below a Banjeaurine. Which is a interesting concept.

At the last ABF rally, I was tasked to play an instrument that Drew Frech had built that he called a "Bass Banjeaurine" on an orphan Guitar Banjo rim.  The scale, if I remember correctly was 28.5" on a 13" rim.  It was clear, powerful, and frankly, I wanted to string it with regular banjo strings and play it as a standard banjo.  I was playing second banjo parts on it. 

The problem with the Gold Tone is that it is small. Gold tone seems to be locked into the 26.25" scale, which is (more or less) what Gibson used for regular and plectrum banjos.  And that is what they used on this one only attached to a 12" rim.  They seem to have used heavy strings to get the lower pitch.

So, basically, the Gold Tone is just a regular 12" rim banjo with a generic scale and heavy strings.  Having the short scale with 22 frets proud of the rim places the bridge more to the center of the head.

At $1700 you could likely do better if this was something you wanted to explore. 

[Joel Hooks]

Gold Tone is a weird company.  They kind of get close to the mark, but not quite.  

Take, for example, your "cello banjo".  The basis for this was a tenor banjo cello, or a tenor banjo pitched one octave below the standard tenor banjo.  The model used for size was made by Gibson for tenor banjo orchestras.

As such, the scale is WAY too short for a regular cello banjo which should be about 29".  This is the same as sticking a 5th string peg in the side of a tenor banjo and trying to tune it to Concert C.  It just does not work well.

Because of this those GT "Cello" banjos lack carrying power and clarity.  This becomes very evident when they are played next to the real thing like those built by S. S. Stewart. 

GT, and Deering both seem to live in their own bubble or echo chambers.  They try to be unique while basically duplicating Gibson banjos.

[David Trainer]

Thanks again Joel. 

I would love to play an original cello banjo but I have never seen one for sale. I used to own a SS Stewart orchestra banjo with a 13 inch head which was superb. I still regret selling it to this day, but a very bad episode of gout meant I couldn't use either of my hands for over a year. I decided to part with some very nice instruments at that time simply because it didn't look like I would ever be able to play again. Thankfully allopurinol is a wonder drug and got me going again ! 

I'm not proposing to spend $1700 on a GT ML-1 banjo. As you say, my money could be spent much more wisely. 

Thanks again for your expert advice. 

[Trapdoor2]

Come to the ABF Fall Rally...you are welcome to play mine!

[David Trainer]

Thanks for the offer - that's very kind of you. 

I'll discuss this rally with my Wife. It would be great !! 

Cheers. 

Dave 

[Joel Hooks]

We are having our spring rally next month, May 16-18.  It will be in Palmyra, NY near Rochester (you can swing by Bernunzio Music).  

Free to attend for anyone interested in classic banjo!

I don't have a cello banjo, but I will have a piccolo there.  You could play that if you want.

[David Trainer]

Thanks again Joel. 

My Wife and I are taking a holiday to Denia in Spain 8-23 May so won't be able to join you at the rally I'm afraid. 

A fellow UK based banjo enthusiast and collector has been in touch with me following these posts and may be able to support me in finding an authentic cello banjo. I'll keep my fingers crossed ! 

I have also wondered about getting a longer neck made for my GT cello banjo. I have had a "non-destructive" banjo conversion done before allowing you to swap between the original neck and new neck. That was done by "Andy Banjo"  [Andy Perkins traditional instruments] who sadly has closed in the UK. Nevertheless there may be other specialists in the UK who could support such a modification if I decide to progress this option. 

Thanks again. 
Dave 

Joel Hooks said:

We are having our spring rally next month, May 16-18.  It will be in Palmyra, NY near Rochester (you can swing by Bernunzio Music).  

Free to attend for anyone interested in classic banjo!

I don't have a cello banjo, but I will have a piccolo there.  You could play that if you want.

[Anthony Peabody]

I used to won a very old cello banjo which was a beast to play, and almost impossible to keep in tune.  I eventually purchased a GoldTone CB4 cello banjo, and I have to say I love it.  Good sound, keeps in tune, and quite enough frets for the purpose.  An expensive buy, but I don't regret it.  Just a thought.

David Trainer said:

Thanks again Joel. 

My Wife and I are taking a holiday to Denia in Spain 8-23 May so won't be able to join you at the rally I'm afraid. 

A fellow UK based banjo enthusiast and collector has been in touch with me following these posts and may be able to support me in finding an authentic cello banjo. I'll keep my fingers crossed ! 

I have also wondered about getting a longer neck made for my GT cello banjo. I have had a "non-destructive" banjo conversion done before allowing you to swap between the original neck and new neck. That was done by "Andy Banjo"  [Andy Perkins traditional instruments] who sadly has closed in the UK. Nevertheless there may be other specialists in the UK who could support such a modification if I decide to progress this option. 

Thanks again. 
Dave 

Joel Hooks said:

We are having our spring rally next month, May 16-18.  It will be in Palmyra, NY near Rochester (you can swing by Bernunzio Music).  

Free to attend for anyone interested in classic banjo!

I don't have a cello banjo, but I will have a piccolo there.  You could play that if you want.

[David Trainer]

Hi Anthony. 

Thanks for your suggestion about the Goldtone CB4 cello banjo. I totally agree with you and have played the 5-string version for a few years arbitrarily tuned to E. I find it a very nice instrument to play albeit that I am still very much an amateur. 

In addition, another UK banjo enthusiast has helped me out in acquiring two further cello banjos to add to my collection and which I am going to enjoy playing particularly as I am due to retire later this year. 

Thanks again. 

Dave