Banjo acquisition syndrome

[Austin]

I think I've caught myself a case. I keep looking at old banjos. Specifically got my eyes on a Clifford Essex. Are they good banjos?

[Jody Stecher]

The good ones are good. The great ones are great. The fair ones are fair.  In general the lower models are of lower quality. The middle models have specific characteristics.  The highest models have more bells and whistles but are not necessarily better, especially for classic banjo music. I've had a Clipper, a Regal, and a XX Special, all excellent. I've played most models. Not all specimens of a given model were of equal quality. It All Depends.

There used to be an informative web page delineating the characteristics of the various CE models and which gave dates for the various addresses at which the company was located.   I can't find it.

[thereallyniceman]

Yes, the dreaded BAS !  Don't worry, we all get it. Initially it is not too serious ... but soon will be ;-)

For Classic Style banjo I would go for a Clifford Essex or Alfred Weaver banjo. It much depends on your budget for which to buy. I have bought all makes and models of banjo, from inexpensive (cheap crap) to mega expensive (expensive crap) but settled on, reasonably priced, Weaver 11"  hoop, metal clad, open backed 20 or 22 fret because they feel and sound nice to play or some model  of CE 11", wood or metal hoop,  22 fret.. They are extremely well made banjos.

I prefer the plastic Remo Renaissance heads as they sound much more mellow (to me) are are less trouble (to me) than calf skin vellum heads.

Check out my videos and you can see the difference. 

In  Grace and Beauty:

https://classic-banjo.ning.com/video/grace-and-beauty-by-james-scot...

I play my CE Special XX (Concert Grand predecessor) 11"  x  3/8" thickness hoop, 22 fret ... a superb banjo, but a bit expensive to buy.

In Syncopatin Shuffle:

https://classic-banjo.ning.com/video/syncopatin-shuffle-arr-fred-va...

I play the Weaver, 11" hoop, Maple neck, 20 fret open back

I don't know where abouts you live in the world but these instruments can be found. In the UK they are usually easier to locate.

I am considering selling my CE Special XX and one of my Weaver 11" 22 fret banjos. You can contact me, if you wish, on: [e-mail]

Good luck with the hunt ;-)

[Joel Hooks]

Hi Austin,  I saw your comment on BHO.  There are CE banjos, and there is the "New CE".  

The "New CE" is only related to the old CE in the loosest way.  New CE offerings are nothing like the original offerings. 

I currently own (and regularly play) A CE Metal Hoop Special and a Concert Grand.  The Metal Hoop Special was NOT made by Alfred Weaver, through it might fool many people as it is a pretty good copy of his work.   I did own a Professional (this has been traded).

I have played other models by CE and liked them.  I have not ever seen or held any of the CE models below the Special (metal and wood hoop), only the Specials and up.  Review the catalog and start reading the BMGs if you are interested in CE banjos. 

I can only speak for myself, but I am not interested in any of the New CE banjo models.  I do like their armrests though. 

I am curious though, why the change of heart about classic banjo?  Early on you puffed out your chest and made it clear that you were not interested in the classic banjo repertoire and that you were going to figure out your own method of playing using all five fingers of the right hand.  You were very confident in this proclamation.  

What changed?

[Jody Stecher]

I sure like the popping sound of your Special XX.  Mine does the same thing.

thereallyniceman said:

Yes, the dreaded BAS !  Don't worry, we all get it. Initially it is not too serious ... but soon will be ;-)

For Classic Style banjo I would go for a Clifford Essex or Alfred Weaver banjo. It much depends on your budget for which to buy. I have bought all makes and models of banjo, from inexpensive (cheap crap) to mega expensive (expensive crap) but settled on, reasonably priced, Weaver 11"  hoop, metal clad, open backed 20 or 22 fret because they feel and sound nice to play or some model  of CE 11", wood or metal hoop,  22 fret.. They are extremely well made banjos.

I prefer the plastic Remo Renaissance heads as they sound much more mellow (to me) are are less trouble (to me) than calf skin vellum heads.

Check out my videos and you can see the difference. 

In  Grace and Beauty:

https://classic-banjo.ning.com/video/grace-and-beauty-by-james-scot...

I play my CE Special XX (Concert Grand predecessor) 11"  x  3/8" thickness hoop, 22 fret ... a superb banjo, but a bit expensive to buy.

In Syncopatin Shuffle:

https://classic-banjo.ning.com/video/syncopatin-shuffle-arr-fred-va...

I play the Weaver, 11" hoop, Maple neck, 20 fret open back

I don't know where abouts you live in the world but these instruments can be found. In the UK they are usually easier to locate.

I am considering selling my CE Special XX and one of my Weaver 11" 22 fret banjos. You can contact me, if you wish, on: [e-mail]

Good luck with the hunt ;-)

[Austin]

Alot changed I guess. I just sort of found a love for the music, but more importantly the playing style. After many hours upon hours upon hours upon hours of trying to invent a new style I thought "why?"  An ergonomic and energy efficient way suitable for classical music has already been figured out. I still might use the pinky in some of my compositions maybe, but for now three fingers with occasional use of the fourth will do. Plus I just don't have the skill to write my repertoire yet, so having something to actually learn and practice seems invaluable.

Joel Hooks said:

Hi Austin,  I saw your comment on BHO.  There are CE banjos, and there is the "New CE".  

The "New CE" is only related to the old CE in the loosest way.  New CE offerings are nothing like the original offerings. 

I currently own (and regularly play) A CE Metal Hoop Special and a Concert Grand.  The Metal Hoop Special was NOT made by Alfred Weaver, through it might fool many people as it is a pretty good copy of his work.   I did own a Professional (this has been traded).

I have played other models by CE and liked them.  I have not ever seen or held any of the CE models below the Special (metal and wood hoop), only the Specials and up.  Review the catalog and start reading the BMGs if you are interested in CE banjos. 

I can only speak for myself, but I am not interested in any of the New CE banjo models.  I do like their armrests though. 

I am curious though, why the change of heart about classic banjo?  Early on you puffed out your chest and made it clear that you were not interested in the classic banjo repertoire and that you were going to figure out your own method of playing using all five fingers of the right hand.  You were very confident in this proclamation.  

What changed?

[Austin]

The one I have my eye on is a 1930s regal

Jody Stecher said:

The good ones are good. The great ones are great. The fair ones are fair.  In general the lower models are of lower quality. The middle models have specific characteristics.  The highest models have more bells and whistles but are not necessarily better, especially for classic banjo music. I've had a Clipper, a Regal, and a XX Special, all excellent. I've played most models. Not all specimens of a given model were of equal quality. It All Depends.

There used to be an informative web page delineating the characteristics of the various CE models and which gave dates for the various addresses at which the company was located.   I can't find it.

[Joel Hooks]

That Regal in the BHO classifieds looks good, but do you want a resonator banjo?  This model is not "convertible" and without the resonator you have a flange sticking out. 

For a short time in the 1970s (I think) CE reissued the Regal.  I do not know the difference between those and the earlier ones. It might be worth doing a little homework on that (answers will be in the BMG-- do not trust message board replies as many people get stuff wrong about CE banjos including who actually made them and esp. when they were made).

Regarding your change, it was what I was trying to explain when you first showed up on BHO.  This has all be fingered out already.  Sure, you can expand on it, but don't discard the fundamentals whole cloth. 

[Austin]

What's the BMG?

[Joel Hooks]

Click on the link at the top of the page for the “John Field BMG Library”

Austin said:

What's the BMG?

[Jody Stecher]

Here's a video of my old Regal.  It got sent to Tennessee. Maybe it's still there.  To my 2024 ears it sounds like it might have benefited from lighter strings. 

https://classic-banjo.ning.com/video/st-louis-tickle-4

Austin said:

The one I have my eye on is a 1930s regal

Jody Stecher said:

The good ones are good. The great ones are great. The fair ones are fair.  In general the lower models are of lower quality. The middle models have specific characteristics.  The highest models have more bells and whistles but are not necessarily better, especially for classic banjo music. I've had a Clipper, a Regal, and a XX Special, all excellent. I've played most models. Not all specimens of a given model were of equal quality. It All Depends.

There used to be an informative web page delineating the characteristics of the various CE models and which gave dates for the various addresses at which the company was located.   I can't find it.

[Jody Stecher]

The one on Banjo Hangout ?  $800 is a very good price for the buyer.  These days I am shedding instruments rather than acquiring them or I'd be tempted myself. This model also sounds very good with light gauge steel strings. 

To my knowledge there are at least 3 CE Regals in the  USA. There's this one, one in Johnson City, Tennessee and one near Nashville, Tennessee.

One question persists for the past 15 years or so, ever since the Eagle Music Shop in the UK told me on the phone that their  Regal banjo had been sold, when I knew for a fact it had not:  "Is the Eagle Regal legal"?  Their price by the way was over £1300 if I am remembering correctly. 

Austin said:

The one I have my eye on is a 1930s regal

[Austin]

It seems like a good price. That is assuming he's not trying to dupe me and give me a 1970s regal instead. I actually managed to pick up my Farland for around