A discussion on the future of the website...

[Russ Chandler]

Hey all

So the early stages of the handover from Ian are looking very positive so I thought I’d canvas some opinions about where we want to go with the site.

One decision I have already made is we are going to replace the whole site with something new, and not on Ning. This gives us many more options and is actually more future-proof going forward since I will be using a very standard and well understood technology stack.

The way I see it is this: Although we all wish our style was huge in the public consciousness and being played everywhere that isn’t happening at the moment. I mean who knows - fashions and revivals come and go so there is always hope of a general revival.

But I think that there will always be a community of maybe a couple of hundred people worldwide who play or enjoy the style. And this site is our hub.

We may be an ageing demographic but I think the idea that classic banjo is the instrument of choice in God’s waiting room is overstated, and if you think about it Pete Seeger refereed to the ABF as “mostly old-timers” back in the fifties and they are still going!

New people discover the style from lots of different backgrounds and are regularly emerging onto the scene. And this site is also used as a resource by many of the best Classic style players even if they don’t post in the forum.

So the new site will keep all the significant content - the music library, tutors, recordings, magazines and the rest. And hopefully we will be able to augment these with more material and make it a really strong archive.

We’ll keep the forum too, and the sharing of us playing on video and so on. This is a great community, and music is about communicating.

I’m thinking of dropping Blogs - they are confusing.

But I also think we should have a new section something like ‘Papers’ where people can write more formal stuff. A bit like the current Morley bio. Joel for example writes fascinating things about the class makeup of the players back in the day and stuff like that would be of great interest and will also help attract new people here.

A couple of questions for general discussion:

• A name. This is known as the “Ning” site to differentiate it from other sites. We need a name. “The Classic Banjo Parlour”?
• Is anyone out there a graphic designer?
• Any other ideas or suggestions.

I’m not gonna guarantee all ideas will get actioned, and I have to take into consideration technical and resource limits, and also it will be a while before anything gets out on the web.

But we have a really good opportunity here, so let’s hammer out some ideas.

And away you go...

[Ethan Schwartz]

Russ -- I'm so pleased it's going in this direction, and thank you for taking it on. 

I agree with everything written above. I would add that a new name should be paired with new URL that is unique but general enough that it will draw some traffic. Something like banjoparlour.com/net/org would work; classicbanjoparlour.something however is unwieldy and blog-ish. Classicbanjo.something may be available but feels uninspired (maybe just my own bias, having seen the term so much). 

I realize not everyone may vibe with the parlour/parlor thing, but I find it evocative. 

[Jody Stecher]

Thank you Russ for wasting no time in getting things going.  It's a big undertaking, I know. I'm sure you'll do a superb job.

Ethan and Russ,  I think anything that combines "banjo" and "parlour" will repel more traffic than it will attract. 

I think "parlour" is a word, concept, and image worth avoiding.  It evokes the feeling of No Longer Relevant.  Undoubtedly there is an element of nostalgia in the classic banjo repertoire and musical approach.  Sometimes an old recording of Olly Oakley or Vess Ossman functions as a sort of time machine.  But in my opinion, any parlour-ness in this music is secondary.  I think the reason that people —most people—including me — give, or would give, their time and attention to listening to and playing this music, is that the music sounds good. It is as viable and musical now as it was from the start.

There are other reasons to not use the P word.  Bill Evans told me about attending an American Banjo Fraternity gathering a quarter of a century ago. Bill used the term "parlour banjo".  Eli Kaufman replied that the location in which a certain music is played is not ideal for naming the genre. He pointed out that bluegrass banjo, the style in which Bill had mostly played, was not called Parking Lot Banjo.  

For decades I played a 19th century small-bodied guitar, a Martin 1-21. It was powerful and tonally complex. Occasionally people would make positive comments about "parlour guitars", having seen but not heard my instrument. I always replied that my guitar was a guitar, not a parlour guitar. It was viable, and often superior, on stage and in the recording studio.  The parlour label seemed to denigrate its utility, relevance, and worth as anything but an ancient artifact. "Parlour" evokes  "nice, polite, and namby-pamby-ness".

[Ethan Schwartz]

Jody, will all due respect, there is a real difference in meaning between "parlour banjo" and "[the] banjo parlour." It's analogous to BHO; the "hangout" part refers to a meeting place, not the existence of a particular style of banjo that is only played in the context of "hangouts" (as in, an informal gathering of friends). I would never use "parlour banjo" as a synonym for "classic banjo." 

A reference to a physical location is nice in a website name, especially when it is discussion/community-based. But hub, center, house, club, etc. are way too general for a niche subject. I'll think more on it and see if I have any ideas. 

[Russ Chandler]

I think Jody makes a strong argument.

We can also use our imaginations and be a bit left field if we want. It needs to be memorable.

[Jody Stecher]

There is a history of "parlour banjo" as a term. There never was a a term "hangout banjo" so there is no underlying identification in the mind of visitors to BHO.  I suspect people would see "banjo parlour" and immediately "parlour banjo" will spring to mind, either consciously or unconsciously. 

How many curious people will be as discerning as you, when searching the web for banjo input?   I don't think the divided mind of the average web-searching person is going to distinguish between pb and bp when perusing URL-s.  I think a sizable portion of web searchers will see the P word and become immediately disinterested unless they are looking for nostalgia.  By advertising any kind of parlour, one is sending a subliminal message that says "marginal relevance in today's world".  Banjo Parlour, Pie Parlour, Beer Parlour, Wrestling Parlour, it doesn't matter. The word suggests something belong to a vanished era.

Why do you find "hub" or "center" too general?  Are you saying that the name of a physical location in a website name should have some of the qualities, ambience, or vibe of the niche subject itself?   If so, can you give some examples of that in some websites, present or past?   I can't think of any.  I'm not convinced that you are right or wrong. I've just never heard of this idea before.

Ethan Schwartz said:

Jody, will all due respect, there is a real difference in meaning between "parlour banjo" and "[the] banjo parlour." It's analogous to BHO; the "hangout" part refers to a meeting place, not the existence of a particular style of banjo that is only played in the context of "hangouts" (as in, an informal gathering of friends). I would never use "parlour banjo" as a synonym for "classic banjo." 

A reference to a physical location is nice in a website name, especially when it is discussion/community-based. But hub, center, house, club, etc. are way too general for a niche subject. I'll think more on it and see if I have any ideas. 

[Jody Stecher]

There is a context to my argument. A prejudice exists against classic banjo music. There is a perception amongst a portion of bluegrass and old-time players that classic banjo music is morbidly rule-bound, un-creative, boring, and dead. My dissatisfaction with "parlour" stems from my familiarity with this situation. 

By the way,  as with other prejudices, the holder of such opinions is often unconsciously describing themselves and projecting onto a target that is "other".   But that is not my concern here. My concern is to not inadvertently limit visits to the new site.

[Trapdoor2]

I think "parlour" (parlor) is totally apropos and should be used. It is evocative of the period and implies a comfortable room of the period. I don't think clickbait, such as "The Music Cabinet of Jack The Ripper" or "Steampunk Banjo" or "Post Apocalyptic Prepper's Zombie Banjo Crypt" would suit (although that was fun).

Keep it simple. We've built a community around the term "Classic Banjo". The word "parlour" is unlikely to deter anyone who cares. Make it a room, parlour, pub, hall, club or center (centre), I just don't think it matters much. We lived with "Ning" for a long time...nobody really complained.

[Jody Stecher]

"Ning" had no associations attached to it.

I agree that those already participating in the genre aren't going to care what the new site is called. 

My concern is not so much to attract new people (which might entail clickbait), as it is to avoid repelling new people.  Maybe I'm wrong and "parlour" indicates "irrelevant" to only 10 people.  Or maybe I'm right and there are thousands who feel that way. 

Trapdoor2 said:

I think "parlour" (parlor) is totally apropos and should be used. It is evocative of the period and implies a comfortable room of the period. I don't think clickbait, such as "The Music Cabinet of Jack The Ripper" or "Steampunk Banjo" or "Post Apocalyptic Prepper's Zombie Banjo Crypt" would suit (although that was fun).

Keep it simple. We've built a community around the term "Classic Banjo". The word "parlour" is unlikely to deter anyone who cares. Make it a room, parlour, pub, hall, club or center (centre), I just don't think it matters much. We lived with "Ning" for a long time...nobody really complained.

[Russ Chandler]

No need to fixate on "Parlour" - it's just one suggestion.

What other ideas?

[Jody Stecher]

Brainstorming here:

 Classic Banjo Harbor/Harbour

Banjo Center/Centre

Banjoland

Banjeroony

Banjoronium

classic banjoness

Classic Banjo Central

Classic 5-string

Russ Chandler said:

No need to fixate on "Parlour" - it's just one suggestion.

What other ideas?

[Aaron Jonah Lewis]

More than anything, I am so relieved to hear that this site will continue! I’m less concerned about what it’s called as long as it’s still up in some form. Thank you Russ for taking up the torch!

Re name ideas, I personally don’t mind at all. Parlor (or parlour) is fine with me but if it’s a problem the alternative that came to mind was “Classic Banjo Library,” since that’s primarily how I’ve used this site. A library has similarities with a parlor as well. I also think it would be fine to keep “classic-banjo.com”.

And then I came on here to post this and saw Jody’s brainstorm and I have to put all my votes into “Banjoland”! In my opinion that’s the best, most perfect name, for all kinds of reasons. 

Re features I’d like to see — It would be great to have the option to bulk download all or selected files from the site. When I saw Ian’s email my first reaction was to find a way to do that. I’m so relieved that I don’t have to do that now but I still think it would be good for anyone who wants to have that ability.

As much as I’d love to participate more fully in all of this I have to exit the discussion here and leave it in the capable and trustworthy hands of everyone else on here. With great respect and gratitude, I wish you all the best and Godspeed!

[Steve Harrison]

Hi Russ, to reflect the varied demographics of our members, how about Classic Banjo International...Steve.