Someting's strange.

[Joel Hooks]

Ok, I have watched this video many times and I am interested in this groups thoughts before I comment.

[Trapdoor2]

I guess I'm going blind. I don't see anything strange about it. I play it as "Cumberland Gap" (in Scruggs style). Looks like 1930's film. Old time 3-finger.

[Joel Hooks]

The axe behind the fiddle player turns into a shotgun at some point.

So that is what three finger old time looks like. I thought it looked like guitar-style without the support of the little finger (Converse's description in ABG).

[Jody Stecher]

deuceswilde said:

So that is what three finger old time looks like.

That what one player's old tine 3 finger technique looks like. I've seen a dozen or so variations and am pretty certain there were many more. No standardization in old time music. Each player had their own way pretty much.

[Trapdoor2]

Yes, continuity issues. I suppose they only had one camera, so the close ups had to be taken at a different time, etc. The 'dancing feet' have a shotgun butt in the picture. In the fiddler's closeup, you can see the shadow of the early suspension microphone on his right arm as he moves his elbow back and forth.

[Russ Chandler]

It's a fantastic clip!

[Lee]

Looks a bit suss and especially the added close-ups. The axe turns into a shotgun and the there is a lot of grass in the closeup of the dancing boots that isn't there in the fullframe . The men's haircuts look wrong ['squareback and sides' rather than 'short back and sides' of pre-50's] and boy, ain't those boots a bit on the clean side? Not even any dust on them. There is also a fiddle section where the left hand is doing nothing but sitting across the strings [would mute the sound] but a lively tune is being played!

[Sam]

The fiddler is Bascom Lamar Lunsford (It certainly looks like him). I'd guess mid-forties to late fifties as to when it was filmed. As what Jody said, there are as many styles of old time three finger picking as there are pickers: from Charlie Poole (Poole was quite the Fred Van Eps fan, you can hear him butcher the "Infanta March" on the "You Ain't Talking To Me"cd) style flat-chording, to Carroll Best's fiddle style picking; then there are people like Lifus Gibson and Ernest Helton who played pretty good guitar style, not quite Van Eps or Cammeyer, but brilliantly individual.

[Joel Hooks]

Those are leather leggings or gaiters. Sometimes there are pictures of cowboys in from the 19th century that look like they are wearing boots, but under closer inspection it's really gaiters.

So early three finger old time style is different than guitar style because it is old timey music being played with a southern accent?

[Joel Hooks]

O.K., I'm convinced. After watching this video. Three finger old time is nothing like classic banjo. They don't anchor, nor do they use the standard guitar-style accompaniment.

[Jody Stecher]

Who are the "they" that don't anchor? Kinney Rorrer can clearly be seen anchoring in this video as he plays and demonstrates Charlie Poole's approach. That's a grand total of 2 players. Some old time 3 finger players don't anchor, some do. Same for classic. I've seen good classic players whose little fingers rest lightly on the vellum, others who put more pressure, and others who have no finger contact whatever with the vellum. What is "standard" in guitar -style accompaniment? In southern old time music the guitar was almost always played with fingers until the 1950s or so or even later, and guitarists had as much variety of musical ideas and techniques as there was amongst old-time banjo players. It's only lately that standardization appeared as a trend. It was the same for the first generation of bluegrass banjo pickers. You could easily tell them apart. I can't say that's true for the most part nowadays in either field.

[Joel Hooks]

Sorry about the sarcasm. I admit that I am skeptical, but I would like to understand the difference.

Charlie Poole's approach looks like it could have come from any of the classic tutors. Of course there are many things that he does differently I don't understand.

In the description he says that it uses a "different tuning" (standard) with a lot of barre chords and tremolo.

So that is a grand total of one classic old time banjo player.

Perhaps I am looking for a certain pattern of skill. Is it the style of music itself and not the M.O. that makes it old time?

Similar to modern country and western that is rock and roll with silly hats and accents, classic banjo on the porch with old timey sounding songs is old time?

There is no doubt that banjo styles have evolved into many different forms.

I guess I should just keep my mouth (keyboard) to myself. I forget how sensitive this subject is and how defensive folks can get about the pedigree of their banjo playing style.

Basic patterns of guitar style accompaniment:

[Joel Hooks]

Does this qualify as old time banjo also?


He could vary well pass for the model of this cut.