Orpheum Cello Banjo

[Byron Thomas]

I was perusing the archive and ran across this photo. Has anyone ever seen this banjo in person? I'm just curious as to how the Orpheum cello banjo would hold up against its counterparts (Stewart cello banjo, Windsor cello banjo and Gibson cello banjo) in an orchestra and solo. I would also like to know if the double coursed strings were still a gut/nylon type or if they were wire. I searched the web but only found a video of a person playing an Orpheum banjo-guitar.

[Joel Hooks]

A little context goes a long way.  This ad was published in Fred Bacon's "The Banjoist" in 1912.

https://archive.org/details/the-banjoist-vol-1-fred-bacon/

Likely both were wire strung, both were for plectrum playing, and neither are comparable to SSS' as that was gut string, finger played, and specific for counterpoint in banjo clubs. 

Apples and oranges. 

[Byron Thomas]

My apologies for not posting the archive link. Is this to say that the wire strung cello-banjos were not for counterpoint or just that they had a tonal difference or both?

Joel Hooks said:

A little context goes a long way.  This ad was published in Fred Bacon's "The Banjoist" in 1912.

https://archive.org/details/the-banjoist-vol-1-fred-bacon/

Likely both were wire strung, both were for plectrum playing, and neither are comparable to SSS' as that was gut string, finger played, and specific for counterpoint in banjo clubs. 

Apples and oranges. 

[Joel Hooks]

It is to say that they are different instruments. 

In the advertisement, one is a guitar and one is a Cello Mandolin.  Both have "banjo" bodies and sounding boards to take advantage of the novelty of volume and tone, but they are still a guitar and a mandolin. 

Neither are "banjos" in that these examples are descendants of different instruments. 

[Trapdoor2]

I would opine that the advertisement instruments are what they say they are. In our present, we may have different opinions as to their nature. Back then, they were what they were.

I got to play a Gibson CB way back in 1992. It was owned by George Gruhn. It was a six-string but George had it strung with two, wire double courses (trebles) and then two wound wire single bass courses. It was tuned CGBD...and it sounded like a trash can strung with fence-wire...very much like nearly every vintage guitar banjo I've ever played. The nut on that thing was cut for double courses on the bass side too. You could string it up however you liked.

I played an Orpheum GB once that was one of the most ornate banjos I'd ever held. It was beautiful! It sounded terrible! Took me less than a minute to put it back in the rack. It probably could have been set up with nylon and made to sound better...but it was also really expensive.

I have also played several of the Gold Tone 5-string Cello Banjos and the 4 string variant too (all with wire). Actually did a side-by-side with my Stewart. The Stewart (Savarez nylon strings) won in a landslide...even with the clawhammer folks. The Stewart projects like a string bass...you feel it. I'm told it sounds good in ensemble. When playing it, it is tough to hear anything else. ;-)

I own a Gold Tone "Lo-Jo", which is a 6-string (5 long, 1 short) with a 14" head. I got it cheap from a friend who traded for it. At first, I found it just annoying. Very hollow sounding, wire strung...which was toned down with a judicious application of bits of car-washing sponges. Still, it was disappointing. It laid in its case for 10yrs until I finally got my music room display going and I hung it up. Looking at it, I decided to give it another chance. Turns out, it needed to be tuned to gGCGCD...and it is now an "old time string-band" monster. I really need to try nylon on it.

[Jody Stecher]

To my ear Gold Tone cello-banjos sound like furniture with strings.

Vintage guitar-banjos, mandolin-banjos, etc when set up Just So can sound fabulous.  Almost any set of nylon guitar strings, a natural vellum and a suitable bridge will tame clangy guitar-banjos.  I've spent hours playing my own Vega Electric model (with the tone ring associated with Whyte Laydie models, and a friend's Vega Tu-ba-phone. I've called both of them a "string tuba". Neither one requires anything stuffed in the back and their pots are just under 12 inches in diameter.   Another way to tame these beasts is with very light gauge wire strings but I much prefer nylon.  I once played a Gibson trap-door guitar-banjo that was strung with medium gauge steel strings and it sound very good. I was surprised. 

So far I have yet to hear a good sounding mandolin-banjo that was not in some way modified from how it left the factory. All of them seem to require some kind on stuffing between the dowel and vellum.   Two stringing strategies that have worked are

1) using single courses. 

2) using double courses tuned down a step from standard mandolin tuning (GDAE tuned down to FCGD).

As with all types of banjos, string type, string gauge, bridge, tailpiece, and head tightness all have a significant effect on sound.

Trapdoor2 said:

I would opine that the advertisement instruments are what they say they are. In our present, we may have different opinions as to their nature. Back then, they were what they were.

I got to play a Gibson CB way back in 1992. It was owned by George Gruhn. It was a six-string but George had it strung with two, wire double courses (trebles) and then two wound wire single bass courses. It was tuned CGBD...and it sounded like a trash can strung with fence-wire...very much like nearly every vintage guitar banjo I've ever played. The nut on that thing was cut for double courses on the bass side too. You could string it up however you liked.

I played an Orpheum GB once that was one of the most ornate banjos I'd ever held. It was beautiful! It sounded terrible! Took me less than a minute to put it back in the rack. It probably could have been set up with nylon and made to sound better...but it was also really expensive.

I have also played several of the Gold Tone 5-string Cello Banjos and the 4 string variant too (all with wire). Actually did a side-by-side with my Stewart. The Stewart (Savarez nylon strings) won in a landslide...even with the clawhammer folks. The Stewart projects like a string bass...you feel it. I'm told it sounds good in ensemble. When playing it, it is tough to hear anything else. ;-)

I own a Gold Tone "Lo-Jo", which is a 6-string (5 long, 1 short) with a 14" head. I got it cheap from a friend who traded for it. At first, I found it just annoying. Very hollow sounding, wire strung...which was toned down with a judicious application of bits of car-washing sponges. Still, it was disappointing. It laid in its case for 10yrs until I finally got my music room display going and I hung it up. Looking at it, I decided to give it another chance. Turns out, it needed to be tuned to gGCGCD...and it is now an "old time string-band" monster. I really need to try nylon on it.

[Joel Hooks]

The Goldtone so called "cello banjo" is a weird thing. 

This is, more or less, based on a Gibson tenor cello banjo-- a tenor banjo pitched one octave lower than the tenor banjo.

This means that the 5 string version is like putting a 5th peg on a tenor banjo and calling it a "regular banjo", it just does not work.  The scale is way too short (24.75") and the rim is too small.  That scale is too short for a regular banjo (excepting the modern dull toned "old time" banjo).