The Terriers March...is it really a Morley arrangement?

[Trapdoor2]

I'm keying in "Terriers' March" by Sanders Papworth and I have two slightly different versions. What I believe to be TBB No. 846 vs MS. The MS appears in the Music Library here...under Joe Morley (along with the published TBB 486 2nd) and the published 1st (presumably TBB 846) is under Sanders Papworth.

The published 2nd states, "'arranged by JOE MORLEY". There's nothing about the published 1st being an arrangement. It simply states, "Sanders Papworth." The MS says nothing about Morley being the arranger, it simply shows up in Morley files (here and the Phil Spiers' files).

I started with the MS (I thought it was the only version available)...but quickly found discrepancies in the rhythms, especially in the B part where there is a repeated triplet figure...which really doesn't work (sounds odd too). I took some pains to try to sort it out, but I had to get rid of the triplets to make it sound "right". After some time, I decided to go look for a different version...and found a copy of the 1st under "Sanders Papworth" here in the library...the copy has no source (it is cut off) but it looks like something from TBB and is similar in appearance to the TBB 846 2nd (and other TBB pieces).

So, I started comparing the MS to the published version. After some study, I think the MS is just somebody's copy (probably a copy of a degraded copy) of TBB 846. The differences are minimal and I can easily see where trying to sort out a degraded copy might lead to those differences.

I now believe the MS is not a Morley arrangement at all and neither is the published 1st. However, the 2nd is probably legitimately Morley (as it claims).

I certainly can't prove my conjecture...but I'm standing on it until it collapses. ;-)

[Trapdoor2]

My copy of Phil's stuff has no file for Boccherini or the Menuet. The first "Bo" file I have is for "Bohee". I think I got my copy from David Wade, many years ago...

I should be able to reconstruct a 1st from the 2nd (and the original Boccherini)...but it would be nicer if somebody had the 1st to match.

[TONY BRYAN]

Thanks, but I hadn't intended this to be a reverse engineering exercise, just to see if I could find an arrangement from the heyday of banjo innovation.  I still think it's odd that no-one thought this was worth the effort of a banjo arrangement. 

[Richard William Ineson]

The signature is that of Bernard Sheaff, I'll have a look for the 1st part tomorrow.

TONY BRYAN said:

Boccherini's Menuet

Joel. Firstly, I would like to express my deep admiration and gratitude for all the work you have put into the Internet Archive. It is an immense achievement for one person and I hope you continue adding to it, to the benefit of all banjo players.

A question for you and any other archivists: in about 1800 Luigi Boccherini wrote his Menuet. In spite of it becoming a familiar and popular piece of classical music, it never seems to have made it to the banjoists' reperpertoire, at least, I can't see it listed in any of the regular publishers' catalogs. Except: in much-admired Phil Spiers' collection there is a hand-written MS for a second banjo part (attached). Does anyone know of a banjo solo to which this might refer? How about the signature on the page? Anyone recognise it? Would that be of any help in tracing the first banjo part?
Regards
Tony

Joel Hooks said:

Added:

https://archive.org/details/terriers-march-sanders-papworth-joe-morley

[Joel Hooks]

[Joel Hooks]

[Richard William Ineson]

It took some finding but persistence generally pays off.

TONY BRYAN said:

Thanks, but I hadn't intended this to be a reverse engineering exercise, just to see if I could find an arrangement from the heyday of banjo innovation.  I still think it's odd that no-one thought this was worth the effort of a banjo arrangement. 

[TONY BRYAN]

Some lovely research work there, you guys, well done!  Thanks for the music - I'll take it away and see if any of it is playable.  At a first glance, I would say that the sainted Bernie Sheaff was the more sensible of the two in going for C and F as the keys most suited to the banjo.  Mr Pique appears to have copied out the piano part which I have seen which puts the piece in A and D.  The piano also shows a low bass emphasis at the start of some bars, and this has required Pique to go for a retuning of the 4th to A;  Bernie managed to keep the 4th string at C by changing the key to C.  Mr Pique may have been a stupendous player of the classics on the banjo, but I suspect Bernie knew the banjo and what it could do better.  Again, thanks a lot for your efforts. 

Tony

[Joel Hooks]

The Pique arr also goes from C to F.  It is in A notation.  

[TONY BRYAN]

Ah, that would explain it.  Thanks.

Joel Hooks said:

The Pique arr also goes from C to F.  It is in A notation.  

[Trapdoor2]

Here's the Pique arrangement in C Notation...plus mp3.

I'll do the Sheaff soon.

[TONY BRYAN]

And here, for comparison purposes, is what Bernard Sheaff came up with. 

[Trapdoor2]

I think the Sheaff arrangement is a little better suited, esp. as a duo. The Pique arr. is a tad busy. It sounds really good but I think the bass line needs to be given to a 2nd banjo. I might do that just for fun. Easy to do in Musescore.

And for us Tab addicts, here's the Pique in Tab.