Human Hand?

[Jody Stecher]

How can a single human hand play the last two measures of the top line of "Accompanying Melody" in Grimshaw's "The Banjo And How To Play It (if you happen to have 6 fingers)"?  

It's found below item 20 on vibrato (called "Singing Strings" in some versions of the book) and found on page 23 or 25 depending on which book version is being used.   

We are told to play an F natural on fret 5 of the bass, to make it last for the entire measure and more as the single note reverberates across the bar line for another dotted crotchet's worth of F.  No problem on its own. Just hold down the string and let it sing. But as we hold down the F we also have to play a descending F major  arpeggio accompaniment of f c a, starting with f an octave above the 4th string F.  A on fret 9 of the bass is unavailable because the bass string is occupied with F at fret 5. So the only option is fret 2 on string 3. This suggests we are not meant to get the descent of F and C on strings 2 and 3 but rather in the usual 1st position garden variety F chord at the first 3 frets of string 1, 2 and 3. 

This is in standard tuning. No human hand can make the required stretch.  It just now occurs to me that maybe elevated bass tuning was intended. But I don't see instructions to do that.

Any suggestions?

[Austin]

I don't think it's possible to hold the F. I would interpret it as it being an implication rather than an actual held note. Much like Beethoven notating his piano sonatas with fp. That effect is not possible on a piano, but he still notated it. Strauss did the same with an unplayable b-flat in his eine alpensinfone.

[Austin]

Either that or hold down the F with the right hand and pluck with the thumb.

Austin said:

I don't think it's possible to hold the F. I would interpret it as it being an implication rather than an actual held note. Much like Beethoven notating his piano sonatas with fp. That effect is not possible on a piano, but he still notated it. Strauss did the same with an unplayable b-flat in his eine alpensinfone.

[Jody Stecher]

Maybe so. It seems odd to find that sort of thing in a book for beginners. Beginners need things that are explicit rather than implied. 

Austin said:

I don't think it's possible to hold the F. I would interpret it as it being an implication rather than an actual held note. Much like Beethoven notating his piano sonatas with fp. That effect is not possible on a piano, but he still notated it. Strauss did the same with an unplayable b-flat in his eine alpensinfone.

[Jody Stecher]

Which part of the right hand?  Thumb is already plucking the F. Or do you mean thumb of the left hand?

Austin said:

Either that or hold down the F with the right hand and pluck with the thumb.

Austin said:

I don't think it's possible to hold the F. I would interpret it as it being an implication rather than an actual held note. Much like Beethoven notating his piano sonatas with fp. That effect is not possible on a piano, but he still notated it. Strauss did the same with an unplayable b-flat in his eine alpensinfone.

[Austin]

You could probably pluck it with the thumb of the left hand if you had a long enough thumb. I would hold it down with the finger of the right hand but that's just because I'm weird and love experimenting.

Jody Stecher said:

Which part of the right hand?  Thumb is already plucking the F. Or do you mean thumb of the left hand?

Austin said:

Either that or hold down the F with the right hand and pluck with the thumb.

Austin said:

I don't think it's possible to hold the F. I would interpret it as it being an implication rather than an actual held note. Much like Beethoven notating his piano sonatas with fp. That effect is not possible on a piano, but he still notated it. Strauss did the same with an unplayable b-flat in his eine alpensinfone.

[Austin]

This is true as well. There's a really weird chord that he puts in there an inversion of a D minor where the F is in the bass while double barring so I think Emile just had large hands

Jody Stecher said:

Maybe so. It seems odd to find that sort of thing in a book for beginners. Beginners need things that are explicit rather than implied. 

Austin said:

I don't think it's possible to hold the F. I would interpret it as it being an implication rather than an actual held note. Much like Beethoven notating his piano sonatas with fp. That effect is not possible on a piano, but he still notated it. Strauss did the same with an unplayable b-flat in his eine alpensinfone.

[Jody Stecher]

What do you mean by "double barring"?

Austin said:

This is true as well. There's a really weird chord that he puts in there an inversion of a D minor where the F is in the bass while double barring so I think Emile just had large hands

Jody Stecher said:

Maybe so. It seems odd to find that sort of thing in a book for beginners. Beginners need things that are explicit rather than implied. 

Austin said:

I don't think it's possible to hold the F. I would interpret it as it being an implication rather than an actual held note. Much like Beethoven notating his piano sonatas with fp. That effect is not possible on a piano, but he still notated it. Strauss did the same with an unplayable b-flat in his eine alpensinfone.

[Joel Hooks]

Hi Jody, did you read the text where he explains how it is actually played-- different than noted and the example is to illustrate how the melody line is noted?

[Jody Stecher]

I did read it but it didn't make complete sense to me.

Joel Hooks said:

Hi Jody, did you read the text where he explains how it is actually played-- different than noted and the example is to illustrate how the melody line is noted?

[Austin]

Barring with the first finger and the second finger simultaneously

Jody Stecher said:

What do you mean by "double barring"?

Austin said:

This is true as well. There's a really weird chord that he puts in there an inversion of a D minor where the F is in the bass while double barring so I think Emile just had large hands

Jody Stecher said:

Maybe so. It seems odd to find that sort of thing in a book for beginners. Beginners need things that are explicit rather than implied. 

Austin said:

I don't think it's possible to hold the F. I would interpret it as it being an implication rather than an actual held note. Much like Beethoven notating his piano sonatas with fp. That effect is not possible on a piano, but he still notated it. Strauss did the same with an unplayable b-flat in his eine alpensinfone.

[IAN SALTER]

I can do by holding down the A and upper F with my 1st and 2nd fingers, the lower F with my 3rd finger and playing the C with my 4th finger, both at the 5th fret, or alternatively, holding the lower F with my 4th finger and rolling it over, onto the C and then off again. Both methods are rather difficult and would require a considerable amount of practice.

[Jody Stecher]

Brilliant! Yes these can be done, as you say, with practice. 

IAN SALTER said:

I can do by holding down the A and upper F with my 1st and 2nd fingers, the lower F with my 3rd finger and playing the C with my 4th finger, both at the 5th fret, or alternatively, holding the lower F with my 4th finger and rolling it over, onto the C and then off again. Both methods are rather difficult and would require a considerable amount of practice.