Right Hand Fingering Question

[Maximilian]

Hi Gang,

First post, but been lurking for a while. I'm very grateful for this website, thank you! I have a very basic question that I'm sure has been discussed before, but I can't find it:

When playing four notes in a row that go from the first string, second string, third string, fourth string; which right hand fingering do you mostly use? I realise it might depend regarding the contexts, but do you have one pattern that is more of your "go-to" pattern for this?

Right now I'm mixing between:

middle, thumb, index, thumb

index, thumb, index, thumb

index, middle, index, thumb

and sometimes simply: middle, index, thumb, thumb, which is the easiest when there is enough time for it, but makes me feel like I'm not doing it right.

I want to get into a good habit, but can't really decide which one makes the most sense. For four note pinches I'm okay with using my ring finger, but it's definitely weaker than the others. Many thanks in advance for any and all feedback!

Cheers,

Max

[Joel Hooks]

What is the piece in question?

Maximilian said:

Thanks for the replies guys!

I do look forward to the Bradbury book, but I am finding Alan Middleton's book very helpful so far. It goes through a lot of different keys with scales, chords and exercises for each. But to keep my interest and motivation up, I am mixing in learning some songs from other recourses (that's where I've run into the passage of my original question). I do read notation and am not looking for a quick fix here, and as I said, I'm looking forward to the Bradbury book soon!

Thanks again everyone!

Max

[Maximilian]

It's Horace Weston's Celebrated Minor Jig, as played by the Titanic Stringband on YouTube. I can have a look and tell you the exact times when this sequence comes along later this evening. It does so in a few places. I have the piece down pretty good and I can tell the banjo player, Peter, is using an alternate thumb between the index and middle, but it hasn't been the easiest for me, so I really just wanted to see how most of you do this. I'll get back to you later! Thanks!

[Jody Stecher]

The only Youtube "video" I can find on youtube of Titanic String Band playing this piece is audio only.  The only four note descending passages I hear are strings 5,1 2 3. It's the characteristic triplets of this piece followed by a longer note. With no disrespect intended, can it be that you are "chasing a phantom"?   My own printed copy of the piece has itself become a phantom. I cannot find it. If and when I do I expect to find my missing  copy of The Tantalizer. Perhaps Horace and the Tantalizer have eloped together  and skedaddled.  Curiously the notation is not in the music library here. There was a discussion some years ago and I seem to remember early versions in A notation were posted but those links no longer work.     

Joel, can you point us to a printed version?  You know where everything is or pretty nearly.

Maximilian said:

It's Horace Weston's Celebrated Minor Jig, as played by the Titanic Stringband on YouTube. I can have a look and tell you the exact times when this sequence comes along later this evening. It does so in a few places. I have the piece down pretty good and I can tell the banjo player, Peter, is using an alternate thumb between the index and middle, but it hasn't been the easiest for me, so I really just wanted to see how most of you do this. I'll get back to you later! Thanks!

[Austin]

Actually I devised a method for this sort of reverse roll. You just use the fourth finger to alternate pick the first string and then roll back with the middle, index and thumb on the second third and fourth string

Jody Stecher said:

A quibble:

Bradbury's advice does not address Max's question about right hand fingering  of four note chords on the four long strings.

Bradbury prescribes using the ring finger on string 1 for  4 note chords using strings 5, 3, 2, 1, omitting the bass string.

As the thumb is the only option for the 5th string and as it is impractical for it to glide to string 3 without sounding string 4 as well, Bradbury's way is the only sensible option for such chords. (I suppose using the pinky finger instead of the ring finger is an option but I would only do that if my ring finger was out of commission). 

Of course we can extrapolate the Bradbury formula to playing chords of four notes on strings 4,3, 2 and 1. But, unlike chords on the highest tuned 4 strings it is not the only option for the lowest 4.

Joel Hooks said:

Bradbury addresses 4 note chords at the very end of the book, it is the last lesson before the last piece (which uses the skill). 

[Maximilian]

Here is the link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4XlaDB5PCH0&t=754s The first time is at 10:40. You can't see Peter's hand that time, but when he plays it again at 10:54 you can tell that he plays strings 4, 1, 2, 3, 4, but here I find it easier to play it as you Jody describe 4, 5, 2, 3, 4 for the Eb and Em chords. Then at 11:32 he plays variations of the same string sequences several times.

[Austin]

Edit: third technically not fourth

Austin said:

Actually I devised a method for this sort of reverse roll. You just use the fourth finger to alternate pick the first string and then roll back with the middle, index and thumb on the second third and fourth string

Jody Stecher said:

A quibble:

Bradbury's advice does not address Max's question about right hand fingering  of four note chords on the four long strings.

Bradbury prescribes using the ring finger on string 1 for  4 note chords using strings 5, 3, 2, 1, omitting the bass string.

As the thumb is the only option for the 5th string and as it is impractical for it to glide to string 3 without sounding string 4 as well, Bradbury's way is the only sensible option for such chords. (I suppose using the pinky finger instead of the ring finger is an option but I would only do that if my ring finger was out of commission). 

Of course we can extrapolate the Bradbury formula to playing chords of four notes on strings 4,3, 2 and 1. But, unlike chords on the highest tuned 4 strings it is not the only option for the lowest 4.

Joel Hooks said:

Bradbury addresses 4 note chords at the very end of the book, it is the last lesson before the last piece (which uses the skill). 

[Jody Stecher]

OK, so the problem is getting back to the 4th string after playing a 4 note/ 4 string passage which begins with the 4th.  Have I got that right? The easiest way (for me) to discuss this is to reference the sheet music and identify measures.  I expect I will find that there is no one formula of finger sequence that will work every time. 

[Joel Hooks]

I think I have nearly a dozen different versions of Weston's Minor Jig, but I think the version in question is S. S. Stewart's arrangement.

It was published in the 5 Stringer #104

[Maximilian]

Jody, I feel like this got more complicated than I originally intended, lol. I do appreciate everyone's help though!

Basically, I can play the sequence okay in few different ways, but feel like I'm not sure which way is the best as none of them are totally natural for me yet. Was mostly just curious if there was a general consensus of the best way of playing a sequence like that, but I guess there is not. :)

I did try the dragging index finger version you mentioned quickly before dinner (I'm in Europe, we already ate) and think I could get used to that. Thanks again for mentioning it! Going to practice it more once the kids fall asleep.  

Thanks again everyone!

Max

[Joel Hooks]

Additionally, I did a full issue on the Minor Jig in March of 2020.

The file is too big to add here directly so I just uploaded it to the internet archive.  The preview will generate shortly...

https://archive.org/details/abf-5-stringer-218

[Maximilian]

Joel, I missed your reply earlier (I swear there was nothing between Jody's and mine before). But thank you very much! I will have a look at that soon.

[Maximilian]

Had a look now at the first version Joel attached here. In the last four rows, when it moves to the key of Fm, that's the thing I was curious about. For me, I think doing an alternate thumb in-between middle and index is probably the most logical. It's also what it looks like Peter is doing in the video I referenced. Would still be curious how you guys do it though!