Alternate tunings?

[Ethan Schwartz]

I did a search and not much came up. I am curious how many examples in the classic banjo repertoire there are of scordatura AKA alternate open-string tunings. To date, I don't recall having come across any. I don't consider elevated bass (gDGBD) to be a scordatura as it is too common, really more like a second standard tuning. 

[Jody Stecher]

Well, the prescribed tuning for "Sebastopol" is f# D F# A D.  There are some G minor pieces in gDGBbD but I can't recall what they are at the moment.

[Joel Hooks]

Sebastopol= Guitar scordatura that was transposed to banjo by S. S. Stewart as a novelty and then copied by J. E. Brewster.  As far as I know this was only published for banjo by Stewart and then plagiarized by Brewster.  I've not ever heard someone play this and when I have it took so much fussing with the tuning it was just not worth the effort.

Some few examples, depending on your personal definition of the era of "classic banjo".

Lon Morris' Jig from Buckley 1868:

https://archive.org/details/buckleysbanjogui00buck/page/15/mode/1up

The Bag Pipes Imitation from Frank Converse 1871:

https://archive.org/details/TheBanjoist/page/n43/mode/1up

Joe Morley also had a bagpipes imitation and may be found on this ning site.

Jumbo Jig, George Dobson, published as sheet music but also found in several of his books:

https://archive.org/details/NationalBanjoMethodGeoDobson/page/n138/...

And then there is the one reference that people always point to for historical justification, the "first banjo I (Converse) ever heard":

https://archive.org/details/NationalBanjoMethodGeoDobson/page/n138/...

this was a performance stunt/gag in the form of "I am such a great player that I can even play the banjo out of tune".  Converse, who was (I guess) about 9 or 10 years old at the time he heard this, was writing about it 45 or so years later. Consider that this was the first time he had heard a banjo and his musical reference was the violin and piano and likely wrote it out on piano, as a 9 or 10 year old.   

Not that that lowers his credibility but it is something to consider.  This event also took place in Elmira, NY.

And that pretty much covers it.  I've not seen every piece of music that was ever published for banjo, nor every book.  This was also rattled off from memory and I could have missed an example. 

[Richard William Ineson]

Frank Lawes' 'Journey Into Bass' requires the bass string to be tuned to Bb, Morley's 'Bagpipe Patrol' has the bass string tuned to A, one of Weston's tunes, possibly 'Weston's Minor Jig',  has the 2nd string tuned to Bb, there will be more but these are all that I can remember off hand.

[Joel Hooks]

I've been able to track down what I believe to be all of the published pieces attributed to Weston including knockoffs and do not recall a single example that used scordatura beyond bass elevated.   I'll double check this evening though. 

Weston's Minor Jig (in all the different versions) are in standard.

Richard William Ineson said:

Frank Lawes' 'Journey Into Bass' requires the bass string to be tuned to Bb, Morley's 'Bagpipe Patrol' has the bass string tuned to A, one of Weston's tunes, possibly 'Weston's Minor Jig',  has the 2nd string tuned to Bb, there will be more but these are all that I can remember off hand.

[Joel Hooks]

Richard, could it be possible that you are thinking of Weston using the pitch of Bb (which would be the 4th string?  That would not be scordatura as the string intervals are all the same as "standard", rather it was the progression to the pitch of C based on banjo size and string technology. 

Due to the "old time banjo" tradition of alternate tunings, I try to be careful to use the word "pitch" when referring to the different eras of the banjo.  All strings were raised in pitch uniformly to keep the same intervals. 

[Richard William Ineson]

I'll take a look at the pile of mouldering paper later. As I said above, the three I mentioned were just from memory (76 years old and not very reliable) but meanwhile cancel the Weston piece

Richard William Ineson said:

Frank Lawes' 'Journey Into Bass' requires the bass string to be tuned to Bb, Morley's 'Bagpipe Patrol' has the bass string tuned to A, one of Weston's tunes, possibly 'Weston's Minor Jig',  has the 2nd string tuned to Bb, there will be more but these are all that I can remember off hand.

[Richard William Ineson]

Sorry Joel, the piece with the 2nd string tuned to Bb is James Bohee's 'American Jig'. It came to me when I came round after my afternoon snooze in front of the TV.

Joel Hooks said:

I've been able to track down what I believe to be all of the published pieces attributed to Weston including knockoffs and do not recall a single example that used scordatura beyond bass elevated.   I'll double check this evening though. 

Weston's Minor Jig (in all the different versions) are in standard.

Richard William Ineson said:

Frank Lawes' 'Journey Into Bass' requires the bass string to be tuned to Bb, Morley's 'Bagpipe Patrol' has the bass string tuned to A, one of Weston's tunes, possibly 'Weston's Minor Jig',  has the 2nd string tuned to Bb, there will be more but these are all that I can remember off hand.

[Jody Stecher]

Yes!  That's one of the Banjo Solos in G minor tuning that I was thinking of. 

Richard William Ineson said:

Sorry Joel, the piece with the 2nd string tuned to Bb is James Bohee's 'American Jig'. It came to me when I came round after my afternoon snooze in front of the TV.

[Joel Hooks]

So that would make two pieces with the second string lowered one half step.  Jumbo Jig, by GCD does the same (linked above).

[Joel Hooks]

Sorry, Jumbo does not raise the 4th.  Does anyone have an earlier copy of the Bohee piece?  The only one here was one of the George Morris versions. 

[Ethan Schwartz]

Great info, Joel. I'm having a hell of time trying to figure out Lon Morris's Jig. It gives the tuning d# B E G B but the notation looks like a typical piece for e A E G# B tuning in E major, including the double-stemmed notehead on e. Are they really asking you play it as if it were e A E G# B but with d# B E G B tuning? I don't have my banjo on hand so I'll have to try it out later. 

The link for the Converse piece is not correct, but I think I know which one you mean, published in Cadenza. It uses e A E A B (raised 2nd string) tuning, correct? 

Joel Hooks said:

Sebastopol= Guitar scordatura that was transposed to banjo by S. S. Stewart as a novelty and then copied by J. E. Brewster.  As far as I know this was only published for banjo by Stewart and then plagiarized by Brewster.  I've not ever heard someone play this and when I have it took so much fussing with the tuning it was just not worth the effort.

Some few examples, depending on your personal definition of the era of "classic banjo".

Lon Morris' Jig from Buckley 1868:

https://archive.org/details/buckleysbanjogui00buck/page/15/mode/1up

The Bag Pipes Imitation from Frank Converse 1871:

https://archive.org/details/TheBanjoist/page/n43/mode/1up

Joe Morley also had a bagpipes imitation and may be found on this ning site.

Jumbo Jig, George Dobson, published as sheet music but also found in several of his books:

https://archive.org/details/NationalBanjoMethodGeoDobson/page/n138/...

And then there is the one reference that people always point to for historical justification, the "first banjo I (Converse) ever heard":

https://archive.org/details/NationalBanjoMethodGeoDobson/page/n138/...

this was a performance stunt/gag in the form of "I am such a great player that I can even play the banjo out of tune".  Converse, who was (I guess) about 9 or 10 years old at the time he heard this, was writing about it 45 or so years later. Consider that this was the first time he had heard a banjo and his musical reference was the violin and piano and likely wrote it out on piano, as a 9 or 10 year old.   

Not that that lowers his credibility but it is something to consider.  This event also took place in Elmira, NY.

And that pretty much covers it.  I've not seen every piece of music that was ever published for banjo, nor every book.  This was also rattled off from memory and I could have missed an example. 

[Ethan Schwartz]

Richard - Journey Into Bass appears to be in standard tuning (at least in the version available here; https://www.classic-banjo.com/?downloadpdf=93)

Richard William Ineson said:

Frank Lawes' 'Journey Into Bass' requires the bass string to be tuned to Bb, Morley's 'Bagpipe Patrol' has the bass string tuned to A, one of Weston's tunes, possibly 'Weston's Minor Jig',  has the 2nd string tuned to Bb, there will be more but these are all that I can remember off hand.