Music Preservation

[Hal Allert]

In an earlier post we were discussing how each of us files his/her music in their own library.  Most of the music we have is a copy of the original with some exceptions. I would like to know if any of you have given thought to your libraries and their continued existence after you are gone. I, for one, have a large library that I have been adding to over the years and I am concerned that when I die my library will just be thrown away with no thought as to its value. But, is there any value to your library? Most of us have the same songs in our libraries so it isn't like mine are the only copies of these rare songs.

What would you like to see happen to your library when you are gone? Should there be a central clearinghouse where one copy of each song is kept for posterity? The American Banjo Fraternity has a very large collection that is not easily accessed. Should we be sending them digital copies of our libraries to enable them to complete their collection? Would they have the resources to manage the digital versions of their paper copies? Should I be the one to put my library online for all to access. Should you send me your library and have me add it to my library online? What happens when I die, who would become the archivist of this enormous collection?

I have been thinking of these things because now is the time to plan for that time when your name will be written down by a bony hand in the cold diary of death.

[David Wade]

At the time I was running Cleckheaton Folk Festival and we access to several routes to funding. A certain JFV offered his assitance at the time and I tried to get Pat Doyle interested as he probably has the largest library of banjo music including hand written originals in the western spiral arm of the Galaxey. Pat showed no interest so it stopped. I was of course, only thinking of the British publications and there was no issue at that time of copyright - this has changed now.

 

[Richard William Ineson]

This is a job that needs doing and the sooner the better, banjo music is being thrown into skips and onto bonfires, as I write. I have a good collection of this stuff, including some scarce items, but I have always made it available to anyone who has asked for a particular item.

Phil Spiers has done a wonderful job of scanning his collection. 

Some people, unfortunately do not want to share their collections, I think that this attitude is short sighted and has been a part of the reason for the demise of the classic banjo, in the past - the music was just not available.

Some people are so paranoid about parting with music, in the past, I have been asked to accompany the odd (and I emphasise the 'odd' bit) banjo player and have been given a completely different arrangement of the music, to play from - once it was even in a different key.

When I explained that I needed to see the original score, I was given the brush off, repeatedly, until I explained that it would not be possible to play at all, if I was not given access to the music.

Other odd banjo players who have managed to obtain rare mss. written by the players of the past, refuse to allow anyone to even see them - all they are doing is ensuring that this music will never be played again.

All of my collection is available to anyone who has an interest in playing the banjo.

[Russ Chandler]

That's shocking, Richard. Tell us who they are and lets go round there mob handed!!

[Hal Allert]

I think we need to find out who is really interested in working on this project. Having a core group of people will save time in locating the people and data we need  to make this happen. I, for one, am obviously excited and interested in working on this. I could start spending my time looking for a grant writer but if Russ or David do  the same thing, we are not maximizing our efforts. This core group of people needs to determine the scope of the project, the type of project it will be, and how it will have a life after its creation. Perhaps this group can communicate by Skype or through a sub-directory of this site so our discussions don't burden the normal blog traffic.

My music is digitized but I hesitate to start a spreadsheet or database of it without a concensus on what the fields should be for the music. I will explore what fields are included in some other music databases and report back to the group.

[Jody Stecher]

Well I am certainly interested in seeing this happen, but have very little to contribute in the way of computer skills or unusual banjo sheet music so my opinion may not or should not carry much weight.  I may have one or two pieces that are not in the average collection and if that turns out to be so, I am happy to contribute.  I may have a few ideas about organization but my views about fields, which seem obvious to me, may seem so because of my ignorance and inexperience. There is title, composer, key, tune type (polka, cake walk, waltz, "other", etc), perhaps tuning, perhaps century.  I don't see a reason to organize according to difficulty as that is subjective. What else is there? USA vs UK?  I don't think the differences are as great between them as the difference between composers. I suppose banjo soli/solos could be distinguished from orchestral pieces. If there are second banjo parts or piano parts these need to be easily accessible. I guess each of those might be a "field" as well.  Another field could be of known recordings of any given piece. I have The Banjo On Record (Heler and Lotz) and would make it available to the compilers if they lack a copy. Some might want to see Publisher as a field.  I would beg the compilers to refrain from classifying or describing any musical composition as a "song" unless it is produced by lungs, larynx, etc. It is significant distinction and misclassification can and does cause confusion. "Cupid's Arrow" is no more a "song" than it is a concerto, a raga, a symphony, a wednesday, an uncle, a grapefruit or a shoebox. 

[Hal Allert]

That was a good start, Jody. I have identified my pieces by 1st, 2nd, cello, piano parts as well. The type of piece is not very important to me as I never look to learn a polka or a march for instance. Oftentimes, those words are part of the title anyway. You say you wouldn't have anything but a few pieces that are not in the average collection. That is probably true of all of us and that is the reason for doing this project. I think we need a basis to add to. Most of us seem to be aware of Phil Spire's collection. If we could get Phil's list as a basis, then we could all contribute what isn't in his list. That way we wouldn't all be forwarding our copy of A Banjo Oddity to the compilers. It would streamline the operation considerably. Being able to hear the piece if there is a recording of it would be a plus but there would be copyright issues with adding one of Geoff Freed's songs to the database. Perhaps an mp3 or a MIDI version of a song could be added, if available, just to give an idea of what the song would sound like should someone want to download it.

I have scanned all of my pieces as TIF files because TIF provides the best way to convert into other formats. I believe Phil's pieces are also TIF. Please no GIF, JPG, or BMP.  PDF might be alright as an alternative but I would prefer TIF. I also would want to stay away from minstrel songs like in the Converse books.

Any thoughts?

[Jody Stecher]

The type of piece would be important to someone putting together a concert set.  Variety of form and tempo makes for a better program.  I wasn't suggesting providing recordings, only to inform the user that a recording exists. Providing mp3 or midi for thousands of tunes would be fabulous but I think far too much labor and time would have to go into such an undertaking. 

 I have heard it said that not everyone finds TIF files  user-friendly. 

[Trapdoor2]

Format isn't all that critical for me. On my computer at home, anything will work. At work, TIF files are a PITA (I don't know why). However, my preference is for .pdf as it is almost 1o0% compatible with any printer on the planet.

Getting a database together is not a big deal. Figuring out which database to use might be. All have unlimited data fields, I tend to put any info that is available on the sheet into a seperate field. Once all the info is in there, it can be sorted any way that seems logical to you. Important fields might be (off the top of my head, no particular order here): "Title", "Composer", "Arranger", "Key", "Tuning", "Notation"(A notation or C notation, etc.), "Publisher", "Pub's. address", "Copyright", "Instrument" (ie, 1st Banjo, Banjeaurine, etc.), "Notes/Comments", "Genre" (Polka, Rag, Waltz, etc.).

I do most of my database-style stuff these days as a spreadsheet in MS Excel. It can easily be imported into most "real" databases and can be macro-enabled to do some very sophisticated things. As I am MS based, MS Access would be my preferred database. 

Phil's database is a great start, it needs some help to allow viewing and selecting the files by Title as well as composer. With his stuff, I ususally have to open the Excel spreadsheet to find the Title and Composer and then open the database to find the actual file. Not a big deal...but not perfect either.

There are copyright issues with the Clifford Essex stuff (which won't go public-domain for another 3 or 4 yrs, IIRC) and anything published in the US after 1923. Still, that leaves a large quantity of music for us to deal with.

We can wish for full music/midi/tab files but I think we ought to start with what we have, scanned/digitized files of the dots.

[Alan Ramsay]

I had been thinking of writing a searchable database of classic banjo scores myself as a "pet project".  I almost started it this summer just for fun.  I think Trapdoor and I have the same idea with slightly different technologies :-)

My plan was to write a simple web site to search the existing catalogue via composer/instrument/date/[all trapdoors other fields] and then provide the files in whatever format they are available.  These days it is no big deal to have lots of different file formats - people can convert to whatever their preference is quite easily.

The most important aspect would be providing a way of adding scores via a web page.  You would fill in title, composer, date, etc, etc and then upload the actual file.  By filling in the form fully, you make it easy for others to search for scores.  Everyone here could add their own score collection as they have time.  Also, you knowledgable guys would be Admins and able to edit/delete score details as you see fit.  And, because I would be writing it myself, I can take on any ideas you guys can think of which would make it better.

Technically:  For storage I was planning on using Amazon S3 which is not free but really costs peanuts per year - I suspect much cheaper than ning will charge for extra storage space.  A donations button would probably be enough to keep it going for a long time.  Access provided to the S3 storage for anyone interested.  I would write the web site for free and fun.  I can host it as well.  Database would be PostgreSql (sorry MS Access is not web-worthy!) and web site would be Ruby on Rails.  Except S3, these are all free to use.

Anything copyrighted we could just link to the CE web site which may even increases sales for them.

If everyone thinks this might be a good idea, then I would be happy to go and write it.  I make a living writing this kind of thing so am confident I could provide something very decent.  I could use the existing databases as a seed and I also have a fairly large collection of scores myself...

A good thread this.  I really think it is something worth doing.  Whatever you all decide to do, I am happy to help in any way I can.

Cheers,

Alan

[Steve Harrison]

My interest in classic banjo started many years ago when I purchased a collection of original scores from an elderly lady called Denise Woodward who was a retired  banjo and guitar teacher. Due to the large size of the scores, I had to find someone with an A3 scanner to get them scanned. Most of them are the usual suspects by Morley and Oakley et al but are in reasonable condition given their age. Would any of these originals have any intrinsic value to collectors and when I eventually fly to the big banjo rally in the sky to whom would I leave them?