Yankee Land

[Trapdoor2]

After watching Eric's video, I thought I would post a TAB file for the group. This is both parts...so go find a duet partner!!

[thereallyniceman]

Marc stars once more! Thank you again!

Does anyone have the Piano part available for Yankee Land, as I would like my wife to play along? It is about time we did something together !

...BUT one question, or maybe a poll, of Classic Ning players:

How many Classic style players here play from TAB ??

I was taught using Notation and most "Classic style" players I have seen over here in the UK play from "the dots" too. I always assumed that TAB for 5 string banjo was mainly a "Bluegrassy" thing ???

Ian, confused, in the UK

[marc dalmasso]

Yes , it is great Thx , marc

fot Ian : i play from tabs_ i play from classic dots _ i play from sounds files _ i play from vidéo files ; and the last way from which i play , i can ' t say ; it is a secret because Rob is watching at these messages ....

[thereallyniceman]

Hi Marc D,
Be very careful, I thought you were going to say you play from MIDI files..........

OH NO, NO, NO...... now I have gone and said it!!!

Quick run and hide, I think Rob is watching.

;-)

Ian

[marc dalmasso]

yes , you said it ... i have to give an explanation for my part ; living in the south of France " cote d 'azur " , , " midi de la France " , where the sun ever shine , i decide i have the right to learn from midi files , ; it is the only exeption , sorry , Rob must understand this . ; For you ,guys in the UK , the midi file is prohibited ; more , learning from midi_files and playing on a banjo with transparent head or worse , prismatic .............. , is ...; i can ' t find the word for this..

[marc dalmasso]

no , the tablature is not at all a " bluegrassy thing " ; it was appearing in France in 15th century for Lute ' music , may be before , and then later in Italy

[Trapdoor2]

You guys are too funny!

I would have posted the dots but the version I have is from CE and our friend David Wade currently owns the copyright for CE publications. There are several other publications of "Yankee Land" out there...but this is the one I had.

I don't use MIDI when there is an audio/video available (and with such a wonderful example in Eric's video, who would need it?). However, I have a terrible time trying to play music I've never heard...so MIDI is my last resort for such things.

I have to admit, I have been lax at working on my dot-reading skills. I can slog along though and sometimes even make sensible sounds. I played the first part of "Banjoliers" last night, straight from the dots but it took me an hour to make any sense of it. After that, I decided it might be a fun piece to learn, so I converted it to TAB. Whooosh! 15min after getting the TAB done, I was playing it all the way thru (slowly...but it is a slow piece anyway).

So...I envy those who are trained to "whoosh" thru the dots...life would be simpler if I could do that, perhaps one day.

However! I do carry the TAB banner high. My purpose there is to bring this wonderful music out to the undotted masses of banjo-players lurking in the landscape. If my bluegrass-stained fingers can play it, they can too.

Today, TAB is indeed a "bluegrassy" thing (and a "clawhammery" thing), for the most part. Back in the day (19th cent), it was recognized as a "simple method" that allowed a subset of players (who could not make sense of the dots) to play the banjo. Dobson published his "simple method" in 1877 and even Stewart published some later on (though he railed against it for years). My Brooks & Denton #1 book (ca 1893) has all the music printed in both dots and TAB (still called "simple method").

[Jody Stecher]

replying to Marc Smith's poll: I don't use tab for any kind of music unless that's the only thing available and then I will. Over the years I have seen how tab thwarts the musical progress of beginners. Those who start with tab usually develop problems with timing and especially with phrasing. Many develop a crippling tab dependency. I am not exaggerating. Later on, sure, why not? I agree with Marc Au Midi, one should use whatever tools are at hand. ( I also have learned from midi). My biggest problem with tab is that tab is more prone to error than staff notation. For one thing errors are harder to spot in a medium in which, unlike staff notation, the symbol doesn't have a visual correspondence to what it represents melodically, so it's a bit harder to proof. For another, tab tends to be written by tab users and tab users tend to have underdeveloped pitch recognition so tabs tend to represent poor versions of good tunes. In the sort of translation from dots to tab that you're doing, Marc, that second reservation doesn't apply. I also have a mild philosophical objection. Tab use tends to imply that the banjo is not a real musical instrument. The implication is that the banjo has no notes, you just play it. The banjo has finger positions but the tones produced are not as "good" as the notes of a real instrument. Naturally I disagree.

replying to Ian: bluegrass amateurs, especially those who wouldn't know real bluegrass if it bit them on the coordinator rods, tend to use tab. Some bluegrass professionals used it at one time but most rely on their ears and prefer to make their own arrangements, either spontaneous or pre-meditated. Many bluegrass professionals, especially the older generation, think tab is the name of a laundry detergent, or is that fab? It's as alien as staff notation. In the oldtime music field, some of the better players will write tab for students who insist on it, but these same individuals do not use tab for their own learning. I don't know or know of any outstanding oldtime banjo player who learns from tab. I don't even know of any competent ones who do.

Trapdoor2 said:

You guys are too funny!
I would have posted the dots but the version I have is from CE and our friend David Wade currently owns the copyright for CE publications. There are several other publications of "Yankee Land" out there...but this is the one I had. I don't use MIDI when there is an audio/video available (and with such a wonderful example in Eric's video, who would need it?). However, I have a terrible time trying to play music I've never heard...so MIDI is my last resort for such things.

I have to admit, I have been lax at working on my dot-reading skills. I can slog along though and sometimes even make sensible sounds. I played the first part of "Banjoliers" last night, straight from the dots but it took me an hour to make any sense of it. After that, I decided it might be a fun piece to learn, so I converted it to TAB. Whooosh! 15min after getting the TAB done, I was playing it all the way thru (slowly...but it is a slow piece anyway).

So...I envy those who are trained to "whoosh" thru the dots...life would be simpler if I could do that, perhaps one day.

However! I do carry the TAB banner high. My purpose there is to bring this wonderful music out to the undotted masses of banjo-players lurking in the landscape. If my bluegrass-stained fingers can play it, they can too.

Today, TAB is indeed a "bluegrassy" thing (and a "clawhammery" thing), for the most part. Back in the day (19th cent), it was recognized as a "simple method" that allowed a subset of players (who could not make sense of the dots) to play the banjo. Dobson published his "simple method" in 1877 and even Stewart published some later on (though he railed against it for years). My Brooks & Denton #1 book (ca 1893) has all the music printed in both dots and TAB (still called "simple method").

[Tom Tyrrell]

I think much of the dislike people have for TAB can be blamed on the poor job so many people do when they create TAB. It seems that most tabbers assume the player knows what the piece should sound like and only needs to know where the proper notes can be found on the instrument at hand, there is no need to communicate TIME since that information is integral to the "proper" sound of the piece. Indeed, S.S. Stewart acknowledged this in the introduction to his 1880 TAB publication entitled "The Banjo by Ear."
Many argue that TIME cannot be communicated via TAB but this is not the case. TIME is linear, one second is exactly the same length as every other second. In printed music (standard notation), the physical length of a measure is just long enough to fit in all the notes and rests and such for that measure. Thus, the physical length one measure may or may not be the same physical length as any other measure - even though they do indeed last for the same amount of time. If one writes TAB using a fixed physical length for each measure, and then places the "notes" along that physical "time line" in their proper positions, one can indeed communicate TIME - and much more logically than by using a bunch of sticks and flags and ties and solid ovals and hollow ovals and squiggles that only have meaning to those who can read that language.

We are in a new era. We now have marvelous software that can communicate everything in standard notation in TAB and SOUND. But as with all written forms of music, it is only as good as the person who writes it.

[Trapdoor2]

I agree, Tom. So much TAB is poorly done that it definitely gives it a bad name. Even decent software like TablEdit (which I use) creates problems with things like whole and half notes. Notes that have no flags simply get sufficient space in the measure to suggest their value. Sometimes, quarter-notes are beamed with 1/8th notes and look like 1/8th notes, etc., etc.

There is no TAB governing body, no universal book of requirements, no standard. As you said, the position of the notes are often all one gets, the value is expected to come out of your memory of the tune...which is a pitiful thing indeed. I have a pile of old Banjo books from the 70's that are so much indecipherable junk. Some is still around and even some recent books have sinned this sin (esp. true of Clawhammer books).

However...in the BG/trad arena, TAB is the universal handout. Name a first water teaching player (I'm still talking American BG or Trad)...they all hand out TAB. I daresay they'd be lynched if they tried to hand out dots! Do these guys learn from TAB? As Jody said, no, most do not...but they have learned TAB to help communicate their knowledge to their students. It is just a means of communication.

Jody, I can't disagree with you. I do think that the BG/Trad world is a different animal though. We try to teach people to be independent of sheet music, to make the music "theirs" and play it the way they perceive it. We teach them to keep rhythm and follow the chord progression, hit a few melody notes to outline the tune and have fun. The very few who actually progress beyond the intermediate level are driven to do so...they learn to learn, they figure out how to listen and reproduce the music (or create their own). The rest never learn to work outside of what's written down. There's the rub, if it is written out properly those people who are "readers" can still play great music...happens all the time in the Classical world, it can happen with TAB. We just have to get better at creating it.

[steve leuschner]

this is nice , i can read tab much quicker than notation and just discovered Aquiila strings , oh boy