Strings for a Stewart Banjeaurine

(adapted from a similar post on banjo hangout):

I recently took possession of a beautiful S S Stewart banjeaurine.  It hasn't been played much for at least 40 years;  it was set up with steel strings;  the neck looks ok.   However, it was tuned way down, perhaps to A.  

I put some nylguts on it, thinking that would be better for the neck, esp. considering that it needs to be tuned up to C.  I also wanted to have a banjeau just for classic pieces.  However, I've had issues with intonation;  I think I need a compensated bridge, and a bridge with bigger slots so the strings won't pop out of the slots.

I have been tempted to try the steel strings again; what have others done with these old banjeaus?


I'll try and get some photos up.

Andy Alexis (Edit : by thereallyniceman. I added the pics for you Andy)

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Permalink Reply by Jody Stecher on April 29, 2015 at 18:19

I'm sure you are right about the current setup and the sound you are getting. However I have noticed again and again that most banjos are very much louder with nylon (etc) strings than with steel. This is counter-intuitive but empirically so ……. most of the time. Let's say 83% of the time.

Patrick Garner said:

"The banjeaurine was designed to conform to a plunky aesthetic. Whether a big pot and a short neck are good idea in a musical instrument is debatable however."

Yes, I acknowledge that it could sound as intended. As I've noted in earlier posts, I continue to use the instrument for 1920s and '30s blues, as well as for classical. For blues, it would have never cut it in a honky tonk, never have carried over all the noise. For a quiet setting, it's fine for classical... But even trying to imagine it in a banjo orchestra, circa 1920, I don't believe it projects enough to have been acceptable to anyone 90 yrs ago. Hence my search for alternate strings.

Permalink Reply by Patrick Garner on April 29, 2015 at 18:32

I just ordered some "very light" steels. .09 and up. They'll be here by Friday, so I'll have a report over the weekend. I suspect you're correct, but hope you're wrong (or, that is, that my banjo falls into the 17% that improve with steels). More from Massachusetts in the next 4-5 days!

Permalink Reply by Trapdoor2 on April 29, 2015 at 18:48

Be careful with steels and the 'common sense' tailpiece. I've seen quite a few distorted by the additional tension. If it were mine, I'd mount a modern No-Knot and reserve the original for the good strings. ;-)

I just recently put a new head on my Stewart Banjeaurine. Went all gut on it for strings (standard Clifford Essex guts). Actually, the banjo now sounds "plunkier" than it ever did. The head I mounted is thicker than the original.

Frankly, by the 1920's, the banjeaurine was no longer capable of holding up to the popular dance music of the period...which is why the Tenor banjo was far more popular.

Permalink Reply by Jody Stecher on April 29, 2015 at 19:03

Cammeyer zither-banjo first and fifth is usually .008.  That or .007 would be very light  I think.  .009 is standard light.  .007 usually comes with a ball end. you can get that to work with the right tailpiece or you can remove the ball end and tie a loop.

Patrick Garner said:

I just ordered some "very light" steels. .09 and up. They'll be here by Friday, so I'll have a report over the weekend. I suspect you're correct, but hope you're wrong (or, that is, that my banjo falls into the 17% that improve with steels). More from Massachusetts in the next 4-5 days!

Permalink Reply by Joel Hooks on April 29, 2015 at 23:25

How exactly did you expect it to sound?  Had you anticipated a "old time" banjo or more of a tenor banjo?

You are about an hour drive from me, would you like me to take a look at it and see if it needs some set up work-- sometimes if the head is thick like Marc posted it will kill the tone.

Intonation and nylgut--- These can develop thin sections as they stretch.  If you "help" them stretch they will absolutely go false. I don't use them and would be happy to give you the sets I have if I did not take all the fourths out of them (the only strings I like that he makes).  A "false string" is one that has varied thicknesses along its length.  It will never note true.  This is especially prevalent on a Banjeaurine.  I also think they are too thick and clacky.  I find that energy is lost as torque when they roll off my finger tips, they don't snap like thinner strings. 

Volume-- Mine is the equivalent in volume and carrying power as my SSS Orchestra.  But they are not Whyte Laydie or Tubaphone banjos.

Patrick Garner said:

I just ordered some "very light" steels. .09 and up. They'll be here by Friday, so I'll have a report over the weekend. I suspect you're correct, but hope you're wrong (or, that is, that my banjo falls into the 17% that improve with steels). More from Massachusetts in the next 4-5 days!

Permalink Reply by Patrick Garner on April 30, 2015 at 0:22

Joel, I'll reply to you directly & off-line. Many thanks--

Permalink Reply by Trapdoor2 on April 30, 2015 at 3:20

LOL. I always hand stretch my nylgut strings and I've never had one lie to me...stretch the truth, sure. ;-)

Nylguts are made by hand...and there is definitely some variation there...same with guts. I finally had a gut 'go false' on me after I'd been playing it almost a full year. Upon inspection, it had started to fray (it was a 1st). I replaced it...

I had problems with Nylgut 4ths as they 'notched' at the frets very quickly on me. After 5-6 months of play, the windings would be cut thru and start unwinding. Now I use CE 4ths and use the Nylgut 4ths as emergency backups.

It is interesting to me how we all have our own ideas as to what works and what doesn't. I have several LaBella string packs around the house, one is under a table leg and one is folded in half and holding a closet door open.

BTW, I played my banjeaurine this evening...after some serious head tightening. It took over a full turn on each nut...eventually. Head is nice and tight now and it sounds excellent. If I remember, I'll record something on it next week.

Permalink Reply by Patrick Garner on April 30, 2015 at 12:48

Interesting. I'm beginning to suspect part of the problem with mine my be the head. The skin may be too thick, or too... Joel made a couple comments to me on the side that got me thinking. The head seems tight enough--nuts are firm--but the material itself may be deadening the tone.

Man, endless experimentation!

Permalink Reply by carrie horgan on May 1, 2015 at 7:39

My banjeaurine is strung with nylon strings and has a thin, maple bridge.  I think you will have more projection with nylon strings; Clifford Essex do a special set: (http://cliffordessex.net/index.php?_a=viewProd&productId=32)

This is what it sounds like strung with nylon - it's got quite a 'big' harp-like sound: https://soundcloud.com/banjopickingal-1/gumbo-medley

Permalink Reply by Patrick Garner on May 1, 2015 at 13:07

Thanks, Carrie. Love your version of "Gumbo." Harp-like is a good description.

I'll put off doing anything until I meet with Joel. He'll be objective enough to straighten me out, if necessary! :-)

Permalink Reply by carrie horgan on May 1, 2015 at 13:41

Great, to have Joel Hooks to help you with this - I'm sure he will be able to help you with the 'set-up' so you get the sound you want.  

Permalink Reply by Patrick Garner on May 5, 2015 at 13:46

Kudos to Joel Hooks, with whom I met this last weekend. Marvelous musician and very much a natural entertainer. Turns out (whew) that my SSS is fine as is. A few tweaks and a couple of recommendations from Mr Hooks, and all is well. And my banjeaurine is now sporting one of his handmade bridges--a lovely compliment to the Stewart. 

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