How many people actually play this style?

[Austin]

I'm curious. How many people even know about it? It seems rare to find someone who does.

[Ethan Schwartz]

What I mean is that playing technique cannot be separated from musical context. Same like knowledge of how to use a specific farming implement doesn't make sense when removed from the larger context of farming. Anecdotes of "so-and-so learned down-picking from observing a black banjoist" leave out that the technique was observed in the context of a tune, which has a far more specific history. 

[Richard William Ineson]

So how many people actually play this style or even know about it?

Ethan Schwartz said:

What I mean is that playing technique cannot be separated from musical context. Same like knowledge of how to use a specific farming implement doesn't make sense when removed from the larger context of farming. Anecdotes of "so-and-so learned down-picking from observing a black banjoist" leave out that the technique was observed in the context of a tune, which has a far more specific history. 

[Jody Stecher]

Are you asking about the up-picking techniques that are not connected to classic banjo? When I started playing banjo in 1957 there were thousands. At this point in time I would guess it is probably the same but the demographic has changed. These ways of playing used to be found solely in the southern states of the USA. Now they are played all over the world by whomever is interested.

Richard William Ineson said:

So how many people actually play this style or even know about it?

Ethan Schwartz said:

What I mean is that playing technique cannot be separated from musical context. Same like knowledge of how to use a specific farming implement doesn't make sense when removed from the larger context of farming. Anecdotes of "so-and-so learned down-picking from observing a black banjoist" leave out that the technique was observed in the context of a tune, which has a far more specific history. 

[John Cohen]

I think we need to distinguish between genuine techniques/styles and the attempt by amateur, sloppy, and/or untalented players to imitate genuine techniques/styles. I find it hard to believe that there were thousands of uppicking styles being played around the American South. Rather, I think this notion is the invention of urban folklorists who were incapable of or unwilling to cast judgement on the players they studied.

[Jody Stecher]

I meant  thousand of players, not thousands of techniques. The non-classic-influenced techniques are fewer than 10.  

John Cohen said:

I think we need to distinguish between genuine techniques/styles and the attempt by amateur, sloppy, and/or untalented players to imitate genuine techniques/styles. I find it hard to believe that there were thousands of uppicking styles being played around the American South. Rather, I think this notion is the invention of urban folklorists who were incapable of or unwilling to cast judgement on the players they studied.

[Ethan Schwartz]

Let's not go down the subjective "what is more genuine/authentic" rabbit hole. The distinction we ought to be making is between technique in the sense of playing mechanics (up-picking, down-picking, strumming, bowing, hammering, etc.) and technique in the sense of musical elaboration/interpretation. The two are, of course, related. And that's really my point. Much ado has been made of how clawhammer as a playing mechanic links the banjo to West Africa (again, ignoring that West African lutes are just as commonly up-picked). But when we look at folk banjo styles, there is little relation musically to how instruments like the akonting are played today, whether we are talking about specific elaborative figures or compositional structure. There isn't a whole lot of relation to minstrel banjo either, minus some melodies that have crossed over (e.g., Angeline the Baker). But the elaborations are completely different. On the other hand, the home-grown African American influence is undeniable. 

It is (or was, at least) the nature or folk banjo to be stylistically idiosyncratic. Everyone had their own way of playing a tune. But mechanically, there are only so many ways to set a string in motion. 

John Cohen said:

I think we need to distinguish between genuine techniques/styles and the attempt by amateur, sloppy, and/or untalented players to imitate genuine techniques/styles. I find it hard to believe that there were thousands of uppicking styles being played around the American South. Rather, I think this notion is the invention of urban folklorists who were incapable of or unwilling to cast judgement on the players they studied.

[Jody Stecher]

Exactly.  I was answering the question about how many people knew about and played these techniques, not how many techniques there were.  There are exactly four ways a banjo string can be caused to vibrate.  Up or down with the right hand and up or down with the left hand.  But these can be mixed and matched in several ways.  And indeed they have.

Ethan Schwartz said:

But mechanically, there are only so many ways to set a string in motion. 

[Jody Stecher]

Whoops there's another way. Straight down with the left hand. Thumping the string to the fingerboard vertically without the right hand plucking. 

Jody Stecher said:

Exactly.  I was answering the question about how many people knew about and played these techniques, not how many techniques there were.  There are exactly four ways a banjo string can be caused to vibrate.  Up or down with the right hand and up or down with the left hand.  But these can be mixed and matched in several ways.  And indeed they have.

Ethan Schwartz said:

But mechanically, there are only so many ways to set a string in motion. 

[Richard William Ineson]

I was just repeating the original questions - 'So how many people actually play this style or even know about it?', as I am curious to know the answers to them and the discussion seems to have drifted away somewhat on to other matters.

Jody Stecher said:

Are you asking about the up-picking techniques that are not connected to classic banjo? When I started playing banjo in 1957 there were thousands. At this point in time I would guess it is probably the same but the demographic has changed. These ways of playing used to be found solely in the southern states of the USA. Now they are played all over the world by whomever is interested.

Richard William Ineson said:

So how many people actually play this style or even know about it?

Ethan Schwartz said:

What I mean is that playing technique cannot be separated from musical context. Same like knowledge of how to use a specific farming implement doesn't make sense when removed from the larger context of farming. Anecdotes of "so-and-so learned down-picking from observing a black banjoist" leave out that the technique was observed in the context of a tune, which has a far more specific history. 

[Ethan Schwartz]

Richard, I already answered that I would estimate there to be a few dozen people in the world who "really play" (subject to interpretation) classic banjo, a few hundred who "kind of play," and a few thousand who don't play but know about it on some level. But that estimate is based more on lack of evidence to the contrary than anything concrete. 

Richard William Ineson said:

I was just repeating the original questions - 'So how many people actually play this style or even know about it?', as I am curious to know the answers to them and the discussion seems to have drifted away somewhat on to other matters.

Jody Stecher said:

Are you asking about the up-picking techniques that are not connected to classic banjo? When I started playing banjo in 1957 there were thousands. At this point in time I would guess it is probably the same but the demographic has changed. These ways of playing used to be found solely in the southern states of the USA. Now they are played all over the world by whomever is interested.

Richard William Ineson said:

So how many people actually play this style or even know about it?

Ethan Schwartz said:

What I mean is that playing technique cannot be separated from musical context. Same like knowledge of how to use a specific farming implement doesn't make sense when removed from the larger context of farming. Anecdotes of "so-and-so learned down-picking from observing a black banjoist" leave out that the technique was observed in the context of a tune, which has a far more specific history. 

[Richard William Ineson]

Joel, I am a big fan of Bluegrass music, (since the Clampett TV series in the 1960s) Bluegrass banjo, Old Time banjo, Frailing banjo etc. and have a large collection of tapes, LPs, CDs of these kinds/styles of music featuring the banjo. I say this because I don't want anyone to think that I am blinkered/oblivious to the developments which have kept the banjo in the forefront of popular music, beyond the era of Ossman and Van Eps etc. Can you tell me who is currently regarded as being the main/most prolific composer of music specifically composed to be played on the banjo in terms of the years since say, 1950?

Joel Hooks said:

Aaron is in a whole different league.  Top of the top.  They could hang with Parke Hunter, Morley, Ossman, and got toe to toe.

[Jody Stecher]

I'm not Joel, but I've been a professional bluegrass  and old time musician all my life.

In the bluegrass field the most prolific composer of banjo tunes might be  Bob Black. I think he's composed about 100 banjo-centric pieces. Tony Trischka, Bill Evans,   Don Reno.and  Earl Scruggs also come to mind.   Most bluegrass instrumental compositions are intended to be played on a variety of instruments with each instrument taking a solo. Probably the most prolific composer of bluegrass instrumental tunes has been Bill Monroe. Only a portion of his output has been recorded.  

In the oldtime field the emphasis has been on received (traditional "folk") repertoire but there have been some composers.  The most prolific might be Mark Simos but his instrumental music is fiddle-centric. Also prolific are Hank Bradley, Erryn Marshall, and maybe some I don't know about.  Hank is a superb banjo player and his banjo tunes are definitely banjo-specific but banjo music is only one corner of his output, Erryn is a fiddler and the repertoire reflects that,

It probably worth mentioning that 95% of bluegrass repertoire is vocal music. Songs. With words. The banjo player's job is to make the song and the singer sound as good as possible, to craft an instrumental solo within the song (either spontaneously or prepared in advance of concert performance or recording,) and to provide effective accompaniment to other instrumental soloists.

In the very wide old time music genre the primary function of the banjo has also been to accompany singing; the singer and banjo player usually being the same person.   The next function is to play instrumental music, either for dancing or for listening.  Typically this has been played in the company of other instruments.  Typically the repertoire for vocal and instrumental music has been received rather than composed All the same there have always been a few composers.. 

Richard William Ineson said:

Joel, I am a big fan of Bluegrass music, (since the Clampett TV series in the 1960s) Bluegrass banjo, Old Time banjo, Frailing banjo etc. and have a large collection of tapes, LPs, CDs of these kinds/styles of music featuring the banjo. I say this because I don't want anyone to think that I am blinkered/oblivious to the developments which have kept the banjo in the forefront of popular music, beyond the era of Ossman and Van Eps etc. Can you tell me who is currently regarded as being the main/most prolific composer of music specifically composed to be played on the banjo in terms of the years since say, 1950?

Joel Hooks said:

Aaron is in a whole different league.  Top of the top.  They could hang with Parke Hunter, Morley, Ossman, and got toe to toe.