Good Scout and Universal Foxtrot by Vess Ossman

[Trapdoor2]

I ran across this relatively new video on youtube and immediately thought it sounded like plectrum playing. Did Ossman do that? This is from his last sessions, 1915-1916.

"Good Scout" has echoes of "Tres Moutarde" in it (at least I hear them).

[Jody Stecher]

Wow, this is a puzzle. The tremolo sounds like it being done with a plectrum. The rest of it sounds like fingertips.  Maybe it's finger tremolo (?  !! )

[Trapdoor2]

I don't hear any fingerstyle motifs at all. No triplets, no syncopated pinches. I think both tunes are full plectrum. No doubt Ossman was a great player but perhaps wanted to jump on the "modern" plectrum trend just coming along then.

Maybe driven by arthritus? He was getting along in years.

[Jody Stecher]

What I mean is that the sound of the strings sounds more to me like the sound a bare fingertip makes than like the sound a plectrum makes. Maybe it doesn't matter. Vess Ossman will sound like Vess Ossman no matter what.

Trapdoor2 said:

I don't hear any fingerstyle motifs at all. No triplets, no syncopated pinches. I think both tunes are full plectrum. No doubt Ossman was a great player but perhaps wanted to jump on the "modern" plectrum trend just coming along then.

Maybe driven by arthritus? He was getting along in years.

[Trapdoor2]

Yah, probably more just Ossman sounding like himself. Plectra back then were generally tiny and I suspect older players tended to try for a softer, more "fingertip" attack...what they were used to.

I was listening (again) for those tiny differences in attack between finger and thumb common to fingerstyle...and can't really hear any. The tremolo is criminally plectrum...in for a penny...?

[Jody Stecher]

Generally the difference in sound between thumb and finger has a parallel in the difference between the down and up stroke of a plectrum. The thumb makes a heavier sound. The downstroke of the plectrum is assisted by gravity and also by the weight of thumb.  I think Ossman is playing on strings that are not metal. That contributes to the softer sound.

Trapdoor2 said:

Yah, probably more just Ossman sounding like himself. Plectra back then were generally tiny and I suspect older players tended to try for a softer, more "fingertip" attack...what they were used to.

I was listening (again) for those tiny differences in attack between finger and thumb common to fingerstyle...and can't really hear any. The tremolo is criminally plectrum...in for a penny...?

[nick Kelly]

Entirely influenced by reading early BMG magazines I have lately been trying plectrum on a couple of classic banjo tunes, the results have been a revelation to me although, they slow me down too much to use a plectrum on all tunes, the ones on which I can play with a plectrum are loud and clear and sound great at outdoor gigs, triplets sound clearer and I shall from now on use a plectrum for certain tunes.

Jody Stecher said:

Generally the difference in sound between thumb and finger has a parallel in the difference between the down and up stroke of a plectrum. The thumb makes a heavier sound. The downstroke of the plectrum is assisted by gravity and also by the weight of thumb.  I think Ossman is playing on strings that are not metal. That contributes to the softer sound.

Trapdoor2 said:

Yah, probably more just Ossman sounding like himself. Plectra back then were generally tiny and I suspect older players tended to try for a softer, more "fingertip" attack...what they were used to.

I was listening (again) for those tiny differences in attack between finger and thumb common to fingerstyle...and can't really hear any. The tremolo is criminally plectrum...in for a penny...?