Furthering the cause of Classic style on the Hangout

[Mike Moss]

Hi all,

Carl Anderton and Tim Twiss have started a thread on the lack of  proper Classic banjo and Stroke style / Minstrel banjo categories for video and audio contributions on the site. Several members of this site have already complained that there isn't a Classic banjo category on the Banjo Hangout, and that we therefore have to use labels which aren't entirely adequate, such as "classical".

If you would like to see Classic and stroke style categories on the Hangout, please visit this thread http://www.banjohangout.org/topic/235139 and leave a message of support.

Mike

[Tim Twiss]

Yea.....CHARGE!!!

 

[Sylvia]

I agree too , but like someone else who replied to the post, I missed it, and not many have replied in 2-3 days. Do you think that if the post title had had the words " classic, mistrel/stroke  categories", rather than "Video genre" you may have had more people looking at it.    I will go back later and vote "for " the suggestion.

[thereallyniceman]

The more people that visit any CLASSIC BANJO website or forum can only be good for the promotion of the style. I agree that on BHO, a site specifically for banjo enthusiasts, it seems odd that they have the got name of the style, which did more to popularise the banjo than any other other style in the early part of the last Century, incorrect.

Come on BHO, we Brits can get it right so I am sure that you, over the pond, can do too!

[Trevor Boyd]

There is also not (is that English?) a Classic Banjo members' group. There is a Classical Banjo group  but I believe that does focus on classical music played on the banjo.

[Mike Moss]

Ladies and gentle mental men,

success! Eric Schlange, the site owner of Banjo Hangout, has replied to the topic, and has added the Classic and Minstrel categories. 

Now, do your duty and reclassify your videos accordingly!

[Sylvia]

Will do when I post any. It is good news.

[Ray Jones]

Adding to the discussion regarding a name for the type of style that we play.   I have given it some thought and it seems to me that the main difference between us and the bluegrass or clawhammer players is that we play, in the main from music as opposed to Tablature.   So how about calling it, " Notation Style "., or as old Mr. Camp called it " Dixie Banjo " which has a nice ring to it.

[Mike Moss]

I agree, Ray; another difference is that we don't rely on patterns, such as rolls and licks, as much as those styles. In Bluegrass banjo, the basic rolls and licks can be found in almost any solo (such as the omnipresent fill-in lick which is characteristic of Earl's playing) and are adapted to suit the melody; and non-melodic frailing also often relies on patterns, such as Pete Seeger's famous "bump ditty".

So whereas we do use rolls, and some "standard" phrases in Classic banjo such as "twiddlys" and "twiddly-dees", it's more about playing what's written, and not a series of patterns.

[Jody Stecher]

Playing what's written AS written it what can bog down classic playing in mediocrity where it could be brilliant. Compare any recording of Van Eps or Ossman with any score you can find (from that time period) and you will find differences. Sometimes the differences are melodic or rhythmic changes, sometimes the written music is simplified to make for clearer playing. Also Van Eps and Ossman recorded the same pieces many times and each recording is different! Not just different speed, but different melodic changes. 

Bumditty is a teaching device for beginners. No credible "frailer" actually is controlled by that or even uses that pattern except for when the melody calls for it.  And in fact Pete Seeger used that mnemonic (which was slightly different in that it adhered more closely to slang words for parts of the female anatomy) to teach what he called the Basic Strum, which is a form of UP picking (trailing is down picking).

Mike Moss said:

I agree, Ray; another difference is that we don't rely on patterns, such as rolls and licks, as much as those styles. In Bluegrass banjo, the basic rolls and licks can be found in almost any solo (such as the omnipresent fill-in lick which is characteristic of Earl's playing) and are adapted to suit the melody; and non-melodic frailing also often relies on patterns, such as Pete Seeger's famous "bump ditty".

So whereas we do use rolls, and some "standard" phrases in Classic banjo such as "twiddlys" and "twiddly-dees", it's more about playing what's written, and not a series of patterns.

[Jody Stecher]

"Dixie Banjo" may have a nice ring but it has a shaky historical basis. The "dixie" in all those planation and "darkey" pieces is the Dixie of the imagination of northern and British banjo composers.  In the real American south this music didn't exist.  The evidence suggests that technically it would have been close to stroke style but melodically and harmonically it would be a bit different.   I also don't think that the essential difference between classic banjo and other styles in the non-use of tab. For one thing few credible old time or bluegrass banjo players use tab. Most of them cannot read or write tab. For another classic banjo is now being published in tab form. The use of staff notation in classic banjo is of course significant but it's not a defining thing. It's the technique, the sound, the repertoire, the aesthetic that define the genre. 

Ray Jones sad:

Adding to the discussion regarding a name for the type of style that we play.   I have given it some thought and it seems to me that the main difference between us and the bluegrass or clawhammer players is that we play, in the main from music as opposed to Tablature.   So how about calling it, " Notation Style "., or as old Mr. Camp called it " Dixie Banjo " which has a nice ring to it.

[Trapdoor2]

Agreed, except for the "credible" part. Same old gripe. I just don't think the tool used to learn a tune gives one more or less credibility. It is what you do with it, the end result, that counts.

Today, you can't teach the banjo (BG, OT, IR-trad, Stroke, Dixieland or Classic) without a handful of TAB to give out. It is the first thing students want. I taught at the Smoky Mt. Banjo Academy this past weekend (I met Bill Evans there a few years ago...I think he hated it. ;-) ) and all teachers/lecturers were asked to bring as much TAB as possible.

Jody Stecher said:

"Dixie Banjo" may have a nice ring but it has a shaky historical basis. The "dixie" in all those planation and "darkey" pieces is the Dixie of the imagination of northern and British banjo composers.  In the real American south this music didn't exist.  The evidence suggests that technically it would have been close to stroke style but melodically and harmonically it would be a bit different.   I also don't think that the essential difference between classic banjo and other styles in the non-use of tab. For one thing few credible old time or bluegrass banjo players use tab. Most of them cannot read or write tab. For another classic banjo is now being published in tab form. The use of staff notation in classic banjo is of course significant but it's not a defining thing. It's the technique, the sound, the repertoire, the aesthetic that define the genre. 

 

[Jody Stecher]

You are right. I should have been clearer. What I meant was not that the use of tab makes a player uncredible  (never mind about incredible) but that virtually all listenable (never mind splendid) banjo players of both bluegrass and oldtime banjo  do not themselves learn from tab, never did, never will. This is verifiable, not my opinion. Since over 90% of  the good banjo players ignore tab when mild mannered and detest tab when fiercely constituted, I based my statement on that.   That doesn't mean someone who learns from tab can't become "credible" once they abandon learning from tab.  Many have and they all bless the day they stopped relying on tab. The worst part about Tab is not the system itself but that most of what's out there is flat out inaccurate. 

Trapdoor2 said:

Agreed, except for the "credible" part. Same old gripe. I just don't think the tool used to learn a tune gives one more or less credibility. It is what you do with it, the end result, that counts.

Today, you can't teach the banjo (BG, OT, IR-trad, Stroke, Dixieland or Classic) without a handful of TAB to give out. It is the first thing students want. I taught at the Smoky Mt. Banjo Academy this past weekend (I met Bill Evans there a few years ago...I think he hated it. ;-) ) and all teachers/lecturers were asked to bring as much TAB as possible.

Jody Stecher said:

"Dixie Banjo" may have a nice ring but it has a shaky historical basis. The "dixie" in all those planation and "darkey" pieces is the Dixie of the imagination of northern and British banjo composers.  In the real American south this music didn't exist.  The evidence suggests that technically it would have been close to stroke style but melodically and harmonically it would be a bit different.   I also don't think that the essential difference between classic banjo and other styles in the non-use of tab. For one thing few credible old time or bluegrass banjo players use tab. Most of them cannot read or write tab. For another classic banjo is now being published in tab form. The use of staff notation in classic banjo is of course significant but it's not a defining thing. It's the technique, the sound, the repertoire, the aesthetic that define the genre.