Dill Pickles: Errors in Clifford Essex score?

[Jody Stecher]

Has anyone tried to play the Clifford Essex score for "Dill Pickles" exactly as written?  (It's in the library here.)  If so I'd like to know how you are accomplishing this as I'm finding sections of  the third part, marked "Trio" to be unlikely. It's on page 2.

 The downbeat, C natural is preceded by a triplet. There are two problems with this. 

1) The notes of the triplet are G A B. The 2 within a circle below the triplet indicates that the triplet is to be played on the second string. It's easy enough to do but it then makes the C natural hard to get at.  The left hand fingering indications however are 0 2 1. This makes perfect sense if the G is gotten on the open 5th string, the A on the second string, and the B on the first string.  So why is there an encircled 2 below the triplet?

2) The phrase that is preceded by the triplet occurs three times. It appears as the first measure of the first three lines of the Trio section. That's fine the first time. The next two times cannot be played if the preceding measure of each is played as written. There is no time, no room, no place for it because the triplet actually begins just before the downbeat.  Vess Ossman on his recording (in the Original Recordings section here) omits the preceding measure on his banjo and relegates it to the accompanists. But maybe there's a way to squeeze it all in (?)

The next problem occurs in the last measure of the second line of the trio. It begins with a three note chord: F#, B, and D. There are two problems with this

1) This is a B minor chord. It makes no sense in context. I think the B should be a A. That would create a D major chord which is what is played in all performances I have heard of this well-known tune. 

2) The chord is marked as 10 PB. That symbol stands for "position barre" and indicates that somewhere in the chord position there are at least 2 strings held down by one finger and that the lowest fret in the position is fret 10. But there is no barre here. The chord F#A D occurs two other places in the score, The first time is at the end of the last measure of the intro where it is indicated at 10 P meaning a chord position whose lowest fret is fret 10. No barre. All good. It makes sense. The other place is in the third measure of the third line from the bottom. This resolves to a D7: F# A C.  This makes sense and indeed there is a barre when the finger playing D is lifted.  So my question is "why is there a 10 PB indication in the trio?"  It could be a printer's error. But maybe I am missing something.

What, if anything, am I missing here?  Can anyone play this score as written?

Thanks.

[Jody Stecher]

I solved half the problem. My photocopy of the score is blurry. I mistook an F natural for an F#. The chord is G7 and indeed it is a "P.B".   What about the triplet problem?  Anybody ? 

[Richard William Ineson]

I think that an engraver's error is to blame for the grace note triplet being wrongly fingered. Engravers employed by the printing companies in those days had to engrave music  notation for all kinds of instruments/orchestras/vocal scores etc. and couldn't be expected to have intimate  knowledge of all of the various quirks employed in the individual notations for each instrument/vocal genre. The encircled '2' indicates to me that the note G is to be played on the second string 8th fret and the following A, B and C notes on the 1st string. The 'o' printed under the G note indicates that this note is to be played on fifth string but the actual note does not bear the usual 'tail' indicating that the fifth string is to be employed. Everybody has to make their own mind up about how a series of notes is played using the fingering which is most convenient/efficient for them. I would play this triplet as follows:- G note, fifth string open followed by A, second string 10th fret, B note first  string ninth fret, leading to the C note, first string tenth fret. I would then play the A note which is indicated as being played on the first string, on the second string at the tenth fret ( as my second finger L.H. would be still holding this note down) and then play the  rest of the bar as written.

[Jody Stecher]

Thank you, Richard and Mike.  

[Richard William Ineson]

In answer to your second question. "The phrase that is preceded by the triplet occurs three times. It appears as the first measure of the first three lines of the Trio section. That's fine the first time. The next two times cannot be played if the preceding measure of each is played as written. There is no time, no room, no place for it because the triplet actually begins just before the downbeat.  But maybe there's a way to squeeze it all in?"  The notes to which you refer are small notes, this indicates that they are 'grace notes', sometimes thought of as 'ornaments' to the main notes in a tune. Grace notes do not really have a fixed time value but they are accommodated or 'squeezed in' by borrowing the value of the small notes from the normal sized note which follows them, in this case C.
Jody Stecher said:

Thank you, Richard and Mike.  

[Jody Stecher]

That is the theory but in practice I have found that grace note triplets of this kind either take place entirely before the downbeat or straddle the bar line so to speak.  In any case there is no way I can find to actually play this section of the tune as written. I've solved the problem by shortening the preceding phrases giving me room to squeeze in the triplet. I like how the triplet sounds. especially when done as you recommend. 

Richard William Ineson said:

In answer to your second question. "The phrase that is preceded by the triplet occurs three times. It appears as the first measure of the first three lines of the Trio section. That's fine the first time. The next two times cannot be played if the preceding measure of each is played as written. There is no time, no room, no place for it because the triplet actually begins just before the downbeat.  But maybe there's a way to squeeze it all in?"  The notes to which you refer are small notes, this indicates that they are 'grace notes', sometimes thought of as 'ornaments' to the main notes in a tune. Grace notes do not really have a fixed time value but they are accommodated or 'squeezed in' by borrowing the value of the small notes from the normal sized note which follows them, in this case C.
Jody Stecher said:

Thank you, Richard and Mike.  

[Trapdoor2]

My take, comparing the original 1906 piano score to the Essex arrangement:

#1. None of the grace-note triplets in the Essex arrangement exist as triplets in the original score. They're simply three grace notes (ie, not notated as a tuplet).

#2. In the Piano Score's trio, the piano's right hand plays a half-note (minim) prior to each triplet (as the left-hand pounds out the climbing motif). This provides a good deal of room to attack those triplets across the measure lines...which any good player would do. They actually sound funny (bad funny) played in strict time/sequence by the computer.

#3. It is notation, after all. We're not robots (well...I'm not. I don't know about y'all!) and interpretation happens. Swing happens, rubato happens...and frankly, I'm all about comfort. I might opt to change those grace notes to something comfier.

[Richard William Ineson]

I agree, just don't play those troublesome three notes, nobody will know. It took me many years before I realised that very few people actually paid any attention to what I was playing after  I'd wasted a lot of years trying to play things perfectly and as a consequence my repertoire was very limited as I never played anything in public unless I could present a perfect performance. Once I realised that nobody was much bothered about what I played or how I played it, I became a lot more relaxed and I got a lot more work and it seemed to me that the worse I played the more the public enjoyed it. This climaxed when I was in my busking years when I would play the same thirty odd tunes on a plectrum banjo on automatic pilot and would find myself going into a kind of trance/hypnotic state from which I would suddenly wake and find that I didn't know what tune I was playing at the time. I developed a way of dealing with this, I just ran my left hand up and down the fingerboard whilst strumming away madly until I got my bearings, this part of the performance always initiated a spontaneous storm of applause from the passing crowds, which gives you a good idea of the capacity for musical appreciation exhibited by most people. You can worry too much about playing all of the notes, seeking after perfection gets you nowhere with a banjo. We are playing music which will be unfamiliar to 99.99% of the members of any audience, even the so called 'popular music' of the 20s and 30s 'When You're Smiling' 'Baby Face' 'Margie' etc. will mean nothing to most people so don't worry about missing a few notes, nobody will notice,  just enjoy playing your banjo, that is the only thing which counts apart from making sure you get paid for doing it.

Trapdoor2 said:

My take, comparing the original 1906 piano score to the Essex arrangement:

#1. None of the grace-note triplets in the Essex arrangement exist as triplets in the original score. They're simply three grace notes (ie, not notated as a tuplet).

#2. In the Piano Score's trio, the piano's right hand plays a half-note (minim) prior to each triplet (as the left-hand pounds out the climbing motif). This provides a good deal of room to attack those triplets across the measure lines...which any good player would do. They actually sound funny (bad funny) played in strict time/sequence by the computer.

#3. It is notation, after all. We're not robots (well...I'm not. I don't know about y'all!) and interpretation happens. Swing happens, rubato happens...and frankly, I'm all about comfort. I might opt to change those grace notes to something comfier.

[Jody Stecher]

Thank you Richard and Marc for your input. I appreciate it very much.

Richard, yes, the general audience is often dull-witted. I know one Scottish violinist who composed a rock tinged orchestral work featuring himself as soloist on a solid body electric violin. On the occasion of the premier performance he ran out on stage too enthusiastically at the start of his solo which caused his violin to come unplugged from the amplifier. He played his entire part jumping and gyrating and got a standing ovation. Not a note could possibly be heard. He quit public performance that night and went back to working as a scientist.   That's just one story of many.

I was curious if that passage was playable on the banjo. I still am.  I am actively curious about possibilities.  If I was worried about playing perfectly I never would have posted any classic banjo videos. People are resourceful though. And each person is uniquely clever.  So I thought I'd ask here on this forum if there was a solution to the puzzle. The puzzle was whether the start of the first three lines of the Trio could be played on the banjo *as written* in this particular score. I know that printers errors are common. I know there are many ways to play a phrase. I often use different techniques in playing a repeat of a given phrase in order to produce contrasting tone colors. But I also know that a composer or an arranger usually means to convey something. Before I reject an indicated way of playing a phrase, or reject the phrase itself, I want to be sure I know what was meant. Because often the shortcoming is in my own perception, not a problem with the work of the printer or with the mind of the composer or arranger. 

When playing "Dill Pickles"  piano players play those grace notes without dropping anything from the preceding measure.  They do it , as Marc has pointed out in point #2 by having two hands/ ten fingers  on the keyboard while the actual sounding of the strings is being done by hammers. The left hand plays the preceding measure(s) and the right hand plays the grace notes —sometimes, to my surprise, hardly straddling the bar line, but mostly or even entirely  borrowing time from the downbeat C natural. It sounds good.  But on the banjo we have only 5 notes (the open strings) that can produce notes not fingered by the left hand. The fingers of the right hand are the equivalent of the piano hammers.  Part of the technical problem for me is the use of the right thumb in playing this passage *as written*.  There are other ways to play it.  Anyway I am enjoying this problem, not worrying.  

[Richard William Ineson]

Hi Jody, No, it is not playable on the banjo 'as written' because the first G note is indicated as being played on the second string and also on the fifth string and you cannot be in two places at once.  

Jody Stecher said:

Thank you Richard and Marc for your input. I appreciate it very much.

Richard, yes, the general audience is often dull-witted. I know one Scottish violinist who composed a rock tinged orchestral work featuring himself as soloist on a solid body electric violin. On the occasion of the premier performance he ran out on stage too enthusiastically at the start of his solo which caused his violin to come unplugged from the amplifier. He played his entire part jumping and gyrating and got a standing ovation. Not a note could possibly be heard. He quit public performance that night and went back to working as a scientist.   That's just one story of many.

I was curious if that passage was playable on the banjo. I still am.  I am actively curious about possibilities.  If I was worried about playing perfectly I never would have posted any classic banjo videos. People are resourceful though. And each person is uniquely clever.  So I thought I'd ask here on this forum if there was a solution to the puzzle. The puzzle was whether the start of the first three lines of the Trio could be played on the banjo *as written* in this particular score. I know that printers errors are common. I know there are many ways to play a phrase. I often use different techniques in playing a repeat of a given phrase in order to produce contrasting tone colors. But I also know that a composer or an arranger usually means to convey something. Before I reject an indicated way of playing a phrase, or reject the phrase itself, I want to be sure I know what was meant. Because often the shortcoming is in my own perception, not a problem with the work of the printer or with the mind of the composer or arranger. 

When playing "Dill Pickles"  piano players play those grace notes without dropping anything from the preceding measure.  They do it , as Marc has pointed out in point #2 by having two hands/ ten fingers  on the keyboard while the actual sounding of the strings is being done by hammers. The left hand plays the preceding measure(s) and the right hand plays the grace notes —sometimes, to my surprise, hardly straddling the bar line, but mostly or even entirely  borrowing time from the downbeat C natural. It sounds good.  But on the banjo we have only 5 notes (the open strings) that can produce notes not fingered by the left hand. The fingers of the right hand are the equivalent of the piano hammers.  Part of the technical problem for me is the use of the right thumb in playing this passage *as written*.  There are other ways to play it.  Anyway I am enjoying this problem, not worrying.  

[Jody Stecher]

Good point. :-)

Richard William Ineson said:

Hi Jody, No, it is not playable on the banjo 'as written' because the first G note is indicated as being played on the second string and also on the fifth string and you cannot be in two places at once.  

[Richard William Ineson]

Hi Jody, Moving on to the vexing question of the triplets/grace notes, this is a very complex muddle and again the triplets/grace notes, as notated in the Essex score cannot be played. The triplets are not slashed through which indicates that the emphasis must be placed on the grace notes which would displace the rhythm because, as you say, "There is no time, no room, no place for it because the triplet actually begins just before the downbeat." In the first bar of the Trio the triplet can be played in the preceding bar because the 2nd banjo accompaniment and the piano part, have an eighth note rest which allows space for the triplet to be played, however in the fifth bar and ninth bars this space does not occur in the preceding bars in the 2nd banjo or piano part so some adjustments have to be made to the score (as written) so that the triplets can be played if so desired. Ossman seems to play the triplets every time but to my defective hearing it is very difficult to hear what the band is playing in the background. The choices seem to me to be, play the triplets the first time (where the accompaniment allows sufficient time to do this)  and then forget them in bars five and nine  or, if you do wish to play all of the triplets, alter the preceding bars to allow time for the triplets to be played or, don't play any of the triplets at all. 
Jody Stecher said:

Good point. :-)

Richard William Ineson said:

Hi Jody, No, it is not playable on the banjo 'as written' because the first G note is indicated as being played on the second string and also on the fifth string and you cannot be in two places at once.  

[Rob MacKillop]

I haven’t the time to read all the responses above, but to me it is fairly obvious that the 2 in a circle refers to the first LH fingered note. Why show you a string number when the g is open?