Convert to nylon strings

[B. Williams]

What-all do I need to convert from steel strings to nylon? Bridge? A different tailpiece? The banjo is the

Rover RB-110 Openback

Details

11" diameter multi-ply rim with simple brass hoop tone ring
Mahogany neck with double-cut peghead and adjustable truss rod
~26-3/8" scale
Dot inlaid rosewood fretboard
Planetary tuners, geared 5th peg
Waverly style tailpiece
24 tension hooks
Adjustable rim rod
Armrest
Frosted white head
Ebony-capped maple bridge 5/8"

Neck is 1 1/4" wide at nut and 1 7/8 at base

[thereallyniceman]

I think that it is an easy swap.

Stage 1:  Remove old steel strings

Stage 2:  Fit nylon strings !

The only thing to look out for are sharp edges at the point the nylon strings go through the tailpiece.

Some modern tailpieces are stamped out and this leaves rough edges that do not trouble steel strings, but can wear through nylon strings. Feel around to see if they feel sharp or rough and sand them smooth if you are concerned.  Yours looks quite a good type so it may be OK.

CE Nylon strings Medium gauge are a good start:  CE Nylon strings

A maple bridge could be a good idea as ebony capped bridges, often used with steel strings, may not give as good a sound with nylon strings fitted. A Clifford Essex "Morley" style would be a good choice.

Available here :CE Morley Bridge

[B. Williams]

Just swap the bridge? I tried that a couple years ago on a different banjo, and the strings kept jumping out of the slots. This made me wonder if a proper bridge would deeper slots. I must have done something wrong.

[thereallyniceman]

If you find that the nylon strings jump out of the bridge the grooves may well be too narrow. A CE Morley bridge should be fine, but if this happens with ANY bridge you can file the grooves a little deeper using really inexpensive files normally used as welding torch tip cleaners.

Remember that the string should sit in the bridge groove with 1/2  of the string in the groove and 1/2 above the groove.

These tip cleaner files are available for a song on Ebay, £2 maximum for a set. They can also be used to widen the nut grooves if the strings jam.

[Joel Hooks]

"Remember that the string should sit in the bridge groove with 1/2  of the string in the groove and 1/2 above the groove."

Except for how they were made 100 years ago...

[Jody Stecher]

Creating proper nut and bridge slots is not quite so simple. For one thing you've got to get the string to depart pointed in the right direction. Read here about nuts:  http://www.lutherie.net/nuts.html

and read about files here: http://www.lutherie.net/nut.files.html

[thereallyniceman]

Oh yes it is. I have made my own bridges and filed round bottomed grooves with these files and I would bet £1000 that nobody could hear any difference in tone to a luthier cut one.

The nut is slightly different as the groove slopes away from the front edge towards the peghead so that the string only sits on a tiny front part of the nut, but you are not deepening the groove, just widening it to accommodate the wider nylon string and this is perfectly possible with these cheap files. Also Jody the files shown on the luthier files page are wrong for cutting bridge grooves (and nut grooves). You cannot cut a parallel sided, round bottomed slot with a tapered file or a triangular file!

Hey Joel, obviously "Neverslip" got theirs wrong by using the wrong file ;-)

[Joel Hooks]

Yeah, that Fred Bacon had no idea what he was doing. ;-)

I’m with Ian on the fancy Luthier cut notches, I think there is a lot of fancy talk that justifies their service over do it yourself.

Heck, anyone can make banjo bridges and I recommend that they try it.

thereallyniceman said:

Oh yes it is. I have made my own bridges and filed round bottomed grooves with these files and I would bet £1000 that nobody could hear any difference in tone to a luthier cut one.

The nut is slightly different as the groove slopes away from the front edge towards the peghead so that the string only sits on a tiny front part of the nut, but you are not deepening the groove, just widening it to accommodate the wider nylon string and this is perfectly possible with these cheap files. Also Jody the files shown on the luthier files page are wrong for cutting bridge grooves (and nut grooves). You cannot cut a parallel sided, round bottomed slot with a tapered file or a triangular file!

Hey Joel, obviously "Neverslip" got theirs wrong by using the wrong file ;-)

[B. Williams]

Thanks. I will look for that little-file array at the local hardware store. Is the Morley bridge available in USA? Currencies and tariffs are daunting to me. The tailpiece in your pic looks like my Waverly, and one of your correspondents said he has never had a problem with it for many years. Apparently, not many have had a problem with bridges, and I assume lots of players have converted to nylon strings. I hope I eventually find the "right" one.

thereallyniceman said:

If you find that the nylon strings jump out of the bridge the grooves may well be too narrow. A CE Morley bridge should be fine, but if this happens with ANY bridge you can file the grooves a little deeper using really inexpensive files normally used as welding torch tip cleaners.

Remember that the string should sit in the bridge groove with 1/2  of the string in the groove and 1/2 above the groove.

These tip cleaner files are available for a song on Ebay, £2 maximum for a set. They can also be used to widen the nut grooves if the strings jam.

[Jody Stecher]

Paul Hostetter, who passed away a few months ago, never sought out customers. When they came to him he charged them a fraction of the going rate.  He was the most skilled luthier I have ever met and those who had nut notches done by him all count themselves lucky. "Fancy' had nothing to do with it. Every luthier and apprentice luthier i have met who saw his nut work would hold it up to the light admiringly and say "now THAT is a thing of beauty. "

He also agreed with me on a general principal: If it ain't broke don't fix it.  In the world of banjos that meant that if nylon strings were working on a banjo nut which had been filed for steel strings there was no reason to widen the slots. He only fixed problems. 

Joel Hooks said:

I’m with Ian on the fancy Luthier cut notches, I think there is a lot of fancy talk that justifies their service over do it yourself.

[Jody Stecher]

Furthermore the point of Paul's website, including the nut and file pages were for the very purpose of encouraging Do It Yourself. .... and doing it well.

[thereallyniceman]

Of course you can buy excellent, hand made, bridges specially for Classic Banjo from our own Joel Hooks who is based in the USA.   Joel makes the perfect maple "Morley Style" bridge.

Sorry I didn't mention Joel before but for some reason I thought that you were located in the UK. 

Here is a link:  Joel Hooks Banjo Bridges

B. Williams said:

Thanks. I will look for that little-file array at the local hardware store. Is the Morley bridge available in USA? Currencies and tariffs are daunting to me. The tailpiece in your pic looks like my Waverly, and one of your correspondents said he has never had a problem with it for many years. Apparently, not many have had a problem with bridges, and I assume lots of players have converted to nylon strings. I hope I eventually find the "right" one.

thereallyniceman said:

If you find that the nylon strings jump out of the bridge the grooves may well be too narrow. A CE Morley bridge should be fine, but if this happens with ANY bridge you can file the grooves a little deeper using really inexpensive files normally used as welding torch tip cleaners.

Remember that the string should sit in the bridge groove with 1/2  of the string in the groove and 1/2 above the groove.

These tip cleaner files are available for a song on Ebay, £2 maximum for a set. They can also be used to widen the nut grooves if the strings jam.

[Steve Harrison]

Another thing of which to be careful is the hole through which the string passes on the 5th tuning peg. Sometimes they can have sharp edges, OK for steel but they can cut through gut or nylon. I usually file a slight chamfer using a small round pin file.......Steve.