Hello All
I wanted to show you some cabinet card photos I bought this week at an Antiques Centre in Kent.

I think this may be Alfred Davies Cammeyer. (It was not easy reading the signature and I had to get help from a Facebook handwriting group).

I have started Alfred's family tree and have been doing some research into his life, though of course he has already been well documented. I have found the photo of him on this forum and a headshot from his Obituary. Does anyone know of anymore?

There was also this picture of a young man playing a banjo. Is it a Zither?

I also have 4 cabinet cards of ladies but they have no writing on. It is quite possible they have nothing to do with Alfred but were in the little pile that I bought at the same time. Are there any photos of his wife known to exist? I know Alfred was known as Cam. I have not been able to find much about his wife Eleanor but there are a couple of possible leads if she was known as Annie?

Any must have reads or places to look for information on him that is not readily available online? I have started flicking through his book.

Lastly I did see the thread on here where I think it was a member called Richard who had tried to find where Alfred was buried. Did he ever find out?

I buy old photos and postcards etc to practice researching family history as it is my hobby. Any comments would be great.

                                                           Jo

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Hello Joanne - thanks for posting.  The first photo does look like a young Alfred Cammeyer - he was quite a heavy-set man.  Hopefully someone may identify the young man who is playing a zither banjo in the second photo.  The zither banjo was very popular in Britain and so it is likely he is a British player. More information about Alfred Cammeyer can be found in Player Biographies on this site and also here: http://www.zither-banjo.org.uk/pages/cammmain.htm  He was both a performer and wrote many compositions for the instrument.  

The photo of Cammeyer is the same as the one used on his instruction book here:

https://archive.org/details/essexcammeyerbanjoandzitherbanjotutor/m...

You can compare the signature to this copy of his book here:

https://archive.org/details/my-adventursome-banjo-a.-d.-cammeyer/pa...

 

Great to see it is a known photo, I can call him Alfred with confidence now. I have turned up many articles and newspaper clippings with Google and the family History programs and did not find that link. This is why I came here for inside knowledge. :)

I am also very happy the banjo is a Zither. Thank you both

Point of clarification:  a zither and a zither-banjo are two different instruments bearing little similarity to each other. The instrument in your photo is a zither-banjo.


Joanne said:

 

Great to see it is a known photo, I can call him Alfred with confidence now. I have turned up many articles and newspaper clippings with Google and the family History programs and did not find that link. This is why I came here for inside knowledge. :)

I am also very happy the banjo is a Zither. Thank you both

Hello Joanne, I'm the Richard who was looking for Cam's grave,  I haven't found it yet. From memory, his wife was called Annie Vaughan Hughes, and her marriage to Cam was her second, her first husband was an officer in the army, her maiden name may have been Lyles. I might have a wedding certificate somewhere (they were married in St. George's ,Hanover Square), Cam's wife died in 1938, at which time Cam retired and moved to Brailsford in Derbyshire to live on the Strutt estate (big mill owners at that time in that area). I have never seen a photo of Cam's wife so if you have one it would be nice to see it, her father had a jewellery shop on Jerrmyn Street which is how Cam probably came to meet her as he had his studio at No.14 and later at 97A (the entrance was in York Street, off Jermyn Street). Cam moved from Jermyn Street to No.3 Swallow Street (formerly the home of Herbert Ellis, another banjo player) in 1903 when Ellis died, later Cam moved to No. 6 Swallow Street and later still to Poland Street. Cammeyer composed over a hundred pieces for the banjo, and wrote several songs for the musical stage, some in collaboration with other lyricists/songwriters/composers. his hey day was probably 1890 -1920,, his banjo pieces ( rewrote over 100 hundred) are mostly well worth playing and some such as 'Bolero', 'Down Devon Way' , Cornish Dance No.1, 'Danse Bizarre' etc. are regarded as his masterpieces. Cam made a few recordings in the 1920s with Bernard Sheaff and others  his popularity as a concert artiste went on into the 1930s. He played at Sandringham for the birthday of the Duke of Clarence. 'Prince Eddie' (who would have succeeded Queen Victoria to the throe had he not died) in January 1891. The Duke of Clarence was mixed up in a scandal involving 'messenger boys'  which is known as 'The Cleveland Street Scandal' so he has been largely forgotten in the history of the Royal family, he was also a suspect in the 'Jack the Rpper' murders. At the time of his death the D of C was engaged to be married to the woman who later became Edward V11's (who was the D of C's brother) wife, Queen Alexandra, she was moved over to Edward when the D of C died suddenly, shortly after Cam's performance at Sandringham. Cam's autobiography 'My Adventuresome Banjo' (A Banjo Sings it Through) is an odd book and contains little real information about his banjo playing, it is a collection of name dropping anecdotes and. as usual, with books like this, the unsigned copies are the rare ones. When Cam became ill he was transferred to the Royal Canadian Hospital in I think, Taplow, which is where presumably, he died and I lost track of him and his grave. I did my research into Cam pre internet/Google so it might be a lot easier to find his grave nowadays. The original zither banjo which Cam brought with him from the USA in 1888 belonged to another banjo player called L.T.Broomfield by the 1960s and it is probably still knocking about somewhere. When Cam retired in 1938,  he couldn't;t find a publisher who wanted to buy the copper plates which were used to print his music so he had them all destroyed. That's about it really, Pat Doyle and I visited Brailsford inthe 1990s and did actually find one man who remembered Cam living there in the 1940s, he was the local undertaker and may have been called Ray Jones. As I say, I'm writing this from my  memory which is not what it once was. The Strutts' family archive is n the Derby museum, they moved to Scotland when they retired and although i made an attempt to contact them as they may have  what remains of Cam's possessions, I didn't get any response at the time.  If I recall anything else I''ll put any further info on here or you can contact me via this site. I would love to see the photo of 'Annie'.

What a lovely reply to come home too. You do have a good memory. 

I think she may well have been known as Annie, I have found a death record which is under the name Annie but Census and birth records say her full name was Eleanor Annie Eyles. I believe her first husbands full name was Captain Herbert Mainwaring Vaughan-Hughes.

I do not know if any of the photos are of Cam's wife. I know one of his sisters lived in Hastings, one of these photos is marked Eastbourne. The 3 girls together look like sisters and also look like the older lady all in black.

Having Google and the genealogy sites makes research much easier than before, I do get told that a lot but graves are still tricky to find even with the internet. I have checked the main burial pages and the couple are not on them. The next thing would be to message the Cemeteries and Churches in the area where he lived and also where his wife lived when she died.

If her family had money she may well have been buried in a family plot and Cam may be buried with her.  Her first husbands family the Vaughan-Hughes were very well off but I have found the Captains grave in Wales and it is well documented and Annie is not buried there.

I will have to read My Adventuresome Banjo properly, Cam must mention his wife in there somewhere.

I will try to contact Derby archives and see what they have on the Strutt family.

You have given me lots to look into and I am very grateful. I will of course come back and let you know how I get on. Thank you.

I have been listening to some of Cam's music on Youtube played by todays Banjo players. Not what I am used to but its growing on me  :)

I am building the tree on Ancestry and adding everything I find to Cams gallery so its all in one place. Non Ancestry members can look for free with an invite or access the site from a library if they would like to see it.

Glad to be of help, I nearly got her name right Eyles/Lyles. I do have some home addresses for the Cammeyer's when they lived in London. As to Vaughan hughes, he may have served in somewhere like The Sudan, I'll try to find out - it's along time since I looked at my papers about all this. Cammeyer was in partnership with another banjo player, Clifford Essex between 1891 and 19000, their premises were at 59 Piccadilly, they published a magazine called 'The Banjo World' which is pretty scarce now but the British Library has an almost complete run from 1891 - 1938 when it folded. I had a bit of bad luck with this too as TBW was held in London but when I enquired bout taking a look at the mags, they were packed up and on their way to the BLibrary in Leeds, I think. I don't think that Annie gets a mention in MABanjo. I may also have an address for the Strutts. The Cammeyer family had a grocery business in Brooklyn I think.  I don't think that Cammeyer is buried in Brailsford churchyard, I tok a good look at it before I found the he had died down south and found nothing. It might be worth looking for Cammeyer's will as I imagine that he might have left a bit of money behind when he died. I will get the papers out in the next few days if i can remember where they are. Cams' wife is mentioned briefly in Bernard Sheaff's tribute to Cam in the B.M.G. magazine i(available on this site) probably in January, 1950 as Cam died in December, 1949.



Joanne said:

What a lovely reply to come home too. You do have a good memory. 

I think she may well have been known as Annie, I have found a death record which is under the name Annie but Census and birth records say her full name was Eleanor Annie Eyles. I believe her first husbands full name was Captain Herbert Mainwaring Vaughan-Hughes.

I do not know if any of the photos are of Cam's wife. I know one of his sisters lived in Hastings, one of these photos is marked Eastbourne. The 3 girls together look like sisters and also look like the older lady all in black.

Having Google and the genealogy sites makes research much easier than before, I do get told that a lot but graves are still tricky to find even with the internet. I have checked the main burial pages and the couple are not on them. The next thing would be to message the Cemeteries and Churches in the area where he lived and also where his wife lived when she died.

If her family had money she may well have been buried in a family plot and Cam may be buried with her.  Her first husbands family the Vaughan-Hughes were very well off but I have found the Captains grave in Wales and it is well documented and Annie is not buried there.

I will have to read My Adventuresome Banjo properly, Cam must mention his wife in there somewhere.

I will try to contact Derby archives and see what they have on the Strutt family.

You have given me lots to look into and I am very grateful. I will of course come back and let you know how I get on. Thank you.

I have been listening to some of Cam's music on Youtube played by todays Banjo players. Not what I am used to but its growing on me  :)

I am building the tree on Ancestry and adding everything I find to Cams gallery so its all in one place. Non Ancestry members can look for free with an invite or access the site from a library if they would like to see it.

I've also remembered that there was a Henrietta Cammeyer who was a concert pianist and was still alive in New York in the 1950s, she was around 100 years old at the time but she may not have been related to Alfred Cammeyer. Cammeyer and Essex dissolved their partnership in 1900, something to do with copyright I think. Arthur Strutt was a banjo pupil of Cammeyer's which is the connection, the house/cotttage which Cammeyer lived in on the Strutt estate at Brailsford was called 'Luna Lure' which is also the title of one of Cam's banjo pieces. The house is still there but is no longer called Luna Lure. There is a famous very old tree in Brailsford which Ray Jones (the undertaker) told us that  Cam used to stare at for   long periods of time. We were also unlucky in that Cam's housekeeper in the 1940s, had only died just recently y when we visited Brailsford  so we were unable to interview her.  RJ told us that during the war Cam asked this housekeeper to go to London to retrieve a banjo from 'Peabody Buildings' which she did; it must have been quite a journey for a young woman from a Derbyshire village at that time. I'm still thinking about Cam and will get to the notes I made this week.

Richard William Ineson said:

Glad to be of help, I nearly got her name right Eyles/Lyles. I do have some home addresses for the Cammeyer's when they lived in London. As to Vaughan hughes, he may have served in somewhere like The Sudan, I'll try to find out - it's along time since I looked at my papers about all this. Cammeyer was in partnership with another banjo player, Clifford Essex between 1891 and 19000, their premises were at 59 Piccadilly, they published a magazine called 'The Banjo World' which is pretty scarce now but the British Library has an almost complete run from 1891 - 1938 when it folded. I had a bit of bad luck with this too as TBW was held in London but when I enquired bout taking a look at the mags, they were packed up and on their way to the BLibrary in Leeds, I think. I don't think that Annie gets a mention in MABanjo. I may also have an address for the Strutts. The Cammeyer family had a grocery business in Brooklyn I think.  I don't think that Cammeyer is buried in Brailsford churchyard, I tok a good look at it before I found the he had died down south and found nothing. It might be worth looking for Cammeyer's will as I imagine that he might have left a bit of money behind when he died. I will get the papers out in the next few days if i can remember where they are. Cams' wife is mentioned briefly in Bernard Sheaff's tribute to Cam in the B.M.G. magazine i(available on this site) probably in January, 1950 as Cam died in December, 1949.



Joanne said:

What a lovely reply to come home too. You do have a good memory. 

I think she may well have been known as Annie, I have found a death record which is under the name Annie but Census and birth records say her full name was Eleanor Annie Eyles. I believe her first husbands full name was Captain Herbert Mainwaring Vaughan-Hughes.

I do not know if any of the photos are of Cam's wife. I know one of his sisters lived in Hastings, one of these photos is marked Eastbourne. The 3 girls together look like sisters and also look like the older lady all in black.

Having Google and the genealogy sites makes research much easier than before, I do get told that a lot but graves are still tricky to find even with the internet. I have checked the main burial pages and the couple are not on them. The next thing would be to message the Cemeteries and Churches in the area where he lived and also where his wife lived when she died.

If her family had money she may well have been buried in a family plot and Cam may be buried with her.  Her first husbands family the Vaughan-Hughes were very well off but I have found the Captains grave in Wales and it is well documented and Annie is not buried there.

I will have to read My Adventuresome Banjo properly, Cam must mention his wife in there somewhere.

I will try to contact Derby archives and see what they have on the Strutt family.

You have given me lots to look into and I am very grateful. I will of course come back and let you know how I get on. Thank you.

I have been listening to some of Cam's music on Youtube played by todays Banjo players. Not what I am used to but its growing on me  :)

I am building the tree on Ancestry and adding everything I find to Cams gallery so its all in one place. Non Ancestry members can look for free with an invite or access the site from a library if they would like to see it.



Richard William Ineson said:

I've also remembered that there was a Henrietta Cammeyer who was a concert pianist and was still alive in New York in the 1950s, she was around 100 years old at the time but she may not have been related to Alfred Cammeyer. Cammeyer and Essex dissolved their partnership in 1900, something to do with copyright I think. Arthur Strutt was a banjo pupil of Cammeyer's which is the connection, the house/cotttage which Cammeyer lived in on the Strutt estate at Brailsford was called 'Luna Lure' which is also the title of one of Cam's banjo pieces. The house is still there but is no longer called Luna Lure. There is a famous very old tree in Brailsford which Ray Jones (the undertaker) told us that  Cam used to stare at for   long periods of time. We were also unlucky in that Cam's housekeeper in the 1940s, had only died just recently y when we visited Brailsford  so we were unable to interview her.  RJ told us that during the war Cam asked this housekeeper to go to London to retrieve a banjo from 'Peabody Buildings' which she did; it must have been quite a journey for a young woman from a Derbyshire village at that time. I'm still thinking about Cam and will get to the notes I made this week.

Richard William Ineson said:

Glad to be of help, I nearly got her name right Eyles/Lyles. I do have some home addresses for the Cammeyer's when they lived in London. As to Vaughan hughes, he may have served in somewhere like The Sudan, I'll try to find out - it's along time since I looked at my papers about all this. Cammeyer was in partnership with another banjo player, Clifford Essex between 1891 and 19000, their premises were at 59 Piccadilly, they published a magazine called 'The Banjo World' which is pretty scarce now but the British Library has an almost complete run from 1891 - 1938 when it folded. I had a bit of bad luck with this too as TBW was held in London but when I enquired bout taking a look at the mags, they were packed up and on their way to the BLibrary in Leeds, I think. I don't think that Annie gets a mention in MABanjo. I may also have an address for the Strutts. The Cammeyer family had a grocery business in Brooklyn I think.  I don't think that Cammeyer is buried in Brailsford churchyard, I tok a good look at it before I found the he had died down south and found nothing. It might be worth looking for Cammeyer's will as I imagine that he might have left a bit of money behind when he died. I will get the papers out in the next few days if i can remember where they are. Cams' wife is mentioned briefly in Bernard Sheaff's tribute to Cam in the B.M.G. magazine i(available on this site) probably in January, 1950 as Cam died in December, 1949.



Joanne said:

What a lovely reply to come home too. You do have a good memory. 

I think she may well have been known as Annie, I have found a death record which is under the name Annie but Census and birth records say her full name was Eleanor Annie Eyles. I believe her first husbands full name was Captain Herbert Mainwaring Vaughan-Hughes.

I do not know if any of the photos are of Cam's wife. I know one of his sisters lived in Hastings, one of these photos is marked Eastbourne. The 3 girls together look like sisters and also look like the older lady all in black.

Having Google and the genealogy sites makes research much easier than before, I do get told that a lot but graves are still tricky to find even with the internet. I have checked the main burial pages and the couple are not on them. The next thing would be to message the Cemeteries and Churches in the area where he lived and also where his wife lived when she died.

If her family had money she may well have been buried in a family plot and Cam may be buried with her.  Her first husbands family the Vaughan-Hughes were very well off but I have found the Captains grave in Wales and it is well documented and Annie is not buried there.

I will have to read My Adventuresome Banjo properly, Cam must mention his wife in there somewhere.

I will try to contact Derby archives and see what they have on the Strutt family.

You have given me lots to look into and I am very grateful. I will of course come back and let you know how I get on. Thank you.

I have been listening to some of Cam's music on Youtube played by todays Banjo players. Not what I am used to but its growing on me  :)

I am building the tree on Ancestry and adding everything I find to Cams gallery so its all in one place. Non Ancestry members can look for free with an invite or access the site from a library if they would like to see it.



Richard William Ineson said:

I've also remembered that there was a Henrietta Cammeyer who was a concert pianist and was still alive in New York in the 1950s, she was around 100 years old at the time but she may not have been related to Alfred Cammeyer. Cammeyer and Essex dissolved their partnership in 1900, something to do with copyright I think. Arthur Strutt was a banjo pupil of Cammeyer's which is the connection, the house/cotttage which Cammeyer lived in on the Strutt estate at Brailsford was called 'Luna Lure' which is also the title of one of Cam's banjo pieces. The house is still there but is no longer called Luna Lure. There is a famous very old tree in Brailsford which Ray Jones (the undertaker) told us that  Cam used to stare at for   long periods of time. We were also unlucky in that Cam's housekeeper in the 1940s, had only died just recently y when we visited Brailsford  so we were unable to interview her.  RJ told us that during the war Cam asked this housekeeper to go to London to retrieve a banjo from 'Peabody Buildings' which she did; it must have been quite a journey for a young woman from a Derbyshire village at that time. I'm still thinking about Cam and will get to the notes I made this week.

Richard William Ineson said:

Glad to be of help, I nearly got her name right Eyles/Lyles. I do have some home addresses for the Cammeyer's when they lived in London. As to Vaughan hughes, he may have served in somewhere like The Sudan, I'll try to find out - it's along time since I looked at my papers about all this. Cammeyer was in partnership with another banjo player, Clifford Essex between 1891 and 19000, their premises were at 59 Piccadilly, they published a magazine called 'The Banjo World' which is pretty scarce now but the British Library has an almost complete run from 1891 - 1938 when it folded. I had a bit of bad luck with this too as TBW was held in London but when I enquired bout taking a look at the mags, they were packed up and on their way to the BLibrary in Leeds, I think. I don't think that Annie gets a mention in MABanjo. I may also have an address for the Strutts. The Cammeyer family had a grocery business in Brooklyn I think.  I don't think that Cammeyer is buried in Brailsford churchyard, I tok a good look at it before I found the he had died down south and found nothing. It might be worth looking for Cammeyer's will as I imagine that he might have left a bit of money behind when he died. I will get the papers out in the next few days if i can remember where they are. Cams' wife is mentioned briefly in Bernard Sheaff's tribute to Cam in the B.M.G. magazine i(available on this site) probably in January, 1950 as Cam died in December, 1949.



Joanne said:

What a lovely reply to come home too. You do have a good memory. 

I think she may well have been known as Annie, I have found a death record which is under the name Annie but Census and birth records say her full name was Eleanor Annie Eyles. I believe her first husbands full name was Captain Herbert Mainwaring Vaughan-Hughes.

I do not know if any of the photos are of Cam's wife. I know one of his sisters lived in Hastings, one of these photos is marked Eastbourne. The 3 girls together look like sisters and also look like the older lady all in black.

Having Google and the genealogy sites makes research much easier than before, I do get told that a lot but graves are still tricky to find even with the internet. I have checked the main burial pages and the couple are not on them. The next thing would be to message the Cemeteries and Churches in the area where he lived and also where his wife lived when she died.

If her family had money she may well have been buried in a family plot and Cam may be buried with her.  Her first husbands family the Vaughan-Hughes were very well off but I have found the Captains grave in Wales and it is well documented and Annie is not buried there.

I will have to read My Adventuresome Banjo properly, Cam must mention his wife in there somewhere.

I will try to contact Derby archives and see what they have on the Strutt family.

You have given me lots to look into and I am very grateful. I will of course come back and let you know how I get on. Thank you.

I have been listening to some of Cam's music on Youtube played by todays Banjo players. Not what I am used to but its growing on me  :)

I am building the tree on Ancestry and adding everything I find to Cams gallery so its all in one place. Non Ancestry members can look for free with an invite or access the site from a library if they would like to see it.

Richard,      one of his sisters was indeed Henrietta born 1856. I have a record of her leaving Ellis Island for France in 1938 and she is 82 then.. It says she lives in New York at that time. I will check the newspaper archives for any adverts or notices.  I have found her again in the 1940 Census - retired music teacher. It must be the same person.

I have their fathers Henry/Harry's obituary and it says he was a wine merchant and later in advertising. A few of the family including Henry and his wife were buried at GreenWood Cemetery, no headstones. I just searched the Cemetery records and there are 40 Cammeyer's buried there. 

I would like to add the marriage cert to the tree if you don't mind? That proves we got that bit correct. That also gives me Annie's fathers correct name. 

Ah Cam's death was registered on Xmas Eve. I am having trouble finding a will but will keep trying.

I know what I will be doing this weekend, thank you so much. 

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