The last Vibrante Royal ever made?

[Steven Watson]

I received this banjo today, which was described in the auction as the last Vibrante Royal ever made. This isn't why I bought it but I'd nevertheless be curious to know if it's true. Perhaps someone here can help? I'd certainly be grateful. The serial number is 5563 285. Inside the case was a print out identifying this number as the last one made (see photos below).

There was also a 1939 letter inside from what looks like F.C. Musselbrook to a Mr Watson. This is of particular interest to me as Watson is my surname too...! I'd be curious to know who he was.

Lastly, and I don't know if this is of interest, but just in case, there were several original unused gut 3rds in the case, labelled 'D'Arblay House / Cammeyer / 10 Poland St. London', as well as two wire 2nds, one red gut 3rd, and some wound strings, possibly silk. There is also a 1935 receipt for a full set of Cammeyer zither banjo strings.

[Joel Hooks]

https://archive.org/details/sidney-w.-young-banjos-catalog/mode/2up

[Steven Watson]

I really should have written, the last *Cammeyer* Vibrante Royal. I assume the claim is that it was the last one made under Cammeyer's name.

[Jody Stecher]

There is also a note saying "Last banjo ever made" but nothing visible in the photo to indicate what banjo that cryptic statement referred to. Thousands of banjos have been made since 1939 so a particular category might have been intended. Is there anything written somewhere that would indicate what was meant?  The strings are certainly of interest. Do you have a micrometer to measure the gauges?  Is there a bridge on the banjo? What sort is it? I am curious about Cammeyer bridges. Every one I have tried to use, both original and repro has been unstable. They easily tip over. Yet it appears that people used these bridges.  What color are the unused third strings that are not red?

Thanks, and congratulations on acquiring a Vibrante Royal.

[Steven Watson]

I assume last banjo ever made under Cammeyer's name? I don't have a micrometer but I may know someone who does and will report back. The unused guts are a normal creamy colour:

These bridges were in the box. I haven't used them yet, but note the measurements, which correspond with the bridges in the box. They seem pretty high, or was this normal (assuming these are original bridges)? The banjo came with a modern 5/8" bridge, and when I attempted to use another modern 1/2" bridge the buzzing on the lower strings was considerable; with the 5/8" bridge there's no buzzing. I wondered if the neck is problematic -- the banjo has wear and some cracks -- but maybe it was designed for a higher bridge?

[Steven Watson]

Looking again now, the pack with the wound strings seems to say 'gauge 22'? 

[Joel Hooks]

Best way to measure strings is with Vernier Calipers.  In the US local hardware stores have these, but I think it is a necessary item for a person to own and be able to use. 

Those bridges are the common Zither Banjo pattern.  I am ignorant on the zither banjo, so I cannot speak to the height of bridges, though in the US with regular banjo there is evidence of a trend to use a "high bridge".  This can be seen promoted with the Hartnett Tone Bar.  Later Grover ads include 5/8" tall bridges. 

[Jody Stecher]

Is "the pack with the wound strings" a typo for the pack with the *unwound* strings?  It looks like plain steel wire to me.

#22 steel wire is .028 inches so that can't be what is meant.

022 inches in plain wire is far too heavy for any pitch on any instrument with a banjo scale. I think the Vibrante Royale scale is about 28 inches, right?

.2286 centimeters is just a bit heavier than .09 inch diameter steel wire. And that is a typical gauge for a *first* string on most zither-banjos. It could be used as second string on a long scale Vibrante Royale. I think .010 is more typical.

But I am a bit dubious about Metric measurements being used in England in 1939.

Another banjo mystery.  

Steven Watson said:

Looking again now, the pack with the wound strings seems to say 'gauge 22'? 

[Steven Watson]

Just double checked, they are definitely wound strings! .022 inches would make sense for a wound string, no? Though it is rather light. The scale length is 27 1/2 on mine.

Jody Stecher said:

Is "the pack with the wound strings" a typo for the pack with the *unwound* strings?  It looks like plain steel wire to me.

#22 steel wire is .028 inches so that can't be what is meant.

022 inches in plain wire is far too heavy for any pitch on any instrument with a banjo scale. I think the Vibrante Royale scale is about 28 inches, right?

.2286 centimeters is just a bit heavier than .09 inch diameter steel wire. And that is a typical gauge for a *first* string on most zither-banjos. It could be used as second string on a long scale Vibrante Royale. I think .010 is more typical.

But I am a bit dubious about Metric measurements being used in England in 1939.

Another banjo mystery.  

[Steven Watson]

Right, I'll look for one. Assumed they would be expensive but apparently not. That's interesting about the bridge height. I'll try and look into it.

Joel Hooks said:

Best way to measure strings is with Vernier Calipers.  In the US local hardware stores have these, but I think it is a necessary item for a person to own and be able to use. 

Those bridges are the common Zither Banjo pattern.  I am ignorant on the zither banjo, so I cannot speak to the height of bridges, though in the US with regular banjo there is evidence of a trend to use a "high bridge".  This can be seen promoted with the Hartnett Tone Bar.  Later Grover ads include 5/8" tall bridges. 

[Jody Stecher]

My digital micrometer is precise all the way down to teensy increments like 0.0001 mm.   I used the old "analog" micrometers for decades but they reacted to cold temperature. I had to warm them up before they would give an accurate reading. My limited knowledge suggests that Vernier Calipers are better in some situations than digital calipers but for measuring music strings I prefer a digital micrometer to any kind of calipers. One reason is that any idiot can use them. Even me.

Joel Hooks said:

Best way to measure strings is with Vernier Calipers.  In the US local hardware stores have these, but I think it is a necessary item for a person to own and be able to use. 

Those bridges are the common Zither Banjo pattern.  I am ignorant on the zither banjo, so I cannot speak to the height of bridges, though in the US with regular banjo there is evidence of a trend to use a "high bridge".  This can be seen promoted with the Hartnett Tone Bar.  Later Grover ads include 5/8" tall bridges. 

[Jody Stecher]

A .022 inch wound string would be used for the bass string on a steel-strung 5-string banjo. It's just below medium gauge. Some go heavier, some go lighter. 

So it could be a viable bass string on a zb, though I'd prefer the sound of a classical guitar or lute type wound string. Not a second string. It would break before it reached B natural, which is approaching an octave above its usual tuning of C or D below the second string tuning.

Steven Watson said:

Just double checked, they are definitely wound strings! .022 inches would make sense for a wound string, no? Though it is rather light. The scale length is 27 1/2 on mine.

Jody Stecher said:

Is "the pack with the wound strings" a typo for the pack with the *unwound* strings?  It looks like plain steel wire to me.

#22 steel wire is .028 inches so that can't be what is meant.

022 inches in plain wire is far too heavy for any pitch on any instrument with a banjo scale. I think the Vibrante Royale scale is about 28 inches, right?

.2286 centimeters is just a bit heavier than .09 inch diameter steel wire. And that is a typical gauge for a *first* string on most zither-banjos. It could be used as second string on a long scale Vibrante Royale. I think .010 is more typical.

But I am a bit dubious about Metric measurements being used in England in 1939.

Another banjo mystery.  

[Steven Watson]

I think there's been some light confusion? I don't think I said they were 2nd strings, and if so I mistyped.