Hello World,

[Jack]

I thought to introduce myself, since I have been hanging around and reading. I’m Jack, from Wyoming, new to the banjo, but already enjoying it. After playing mandolin for several years, fourths and thirds are something my brain is slowly getting used to. I’m alternating between bare fingers and a flatpick, as I get used to my instrument. I will probably pursue the bluegrass style in the long-run, but after listening to Fred J. Bacon, I’m intrigued with the idea of the banjo as a more generalized instrument.

Current favorite banjo player, Rhiannon Giddens (playing in a tuning that has notes lower than open G’s lowest).

General question. I see my banjo is tuned in bluegrass style G D G B D. Is there an advantage to learning a different another tuning for the music I see on this site, or will openG work for now?

Finally, I have a mania to research and write Wikipedia articles (your sympathy please...)  Examples of recent articles: American Banjo Museum, Fred J. Bacon (not finished or tested for accuracy). I’m always open to suggestions and outright criticism. 

I’m pleased to make your acquaintance,

Jack

[Jack]

Can anyone opine what books are more current? Is current research only online or in journals?

[Joel Hooks]

The mandolin hit big in the 1880s.  It is a funny story of mistaken identity.  I am not an expert but the story is easy to find. It all began with the touring act of the Spanish Students.  Prior to the early 1880s the mandolin was pretty much unknown in the US (a historical fact overlooked by American Civl War reenactors).  By 1900 it looks to have peaked and started a slow decline that petered out about a decade or two later replaced by the tenor banjo of the same musical tradition (the tenor banjo being a variation on the mandolin and not of the "banjo" family).

I would argue that the banjo was largely learned by ear until the late 1870s.  Converse wrote about trying to convince other professionals about the merits of notation early on.  It was the generation that came of age during the post war industrial revolution that made learning and science a popular culture thing.  If we call Sweeney and his peers the first generation of 5 string players (including names like Whitlock, Horn, Briggs, Rice, ect.), the second would be Converse, Baur, Buckleys, Dobsons, Weston, Clarke,  etc., which brings us to the third generation that included Stewart, Lansing, Armstrong, Ossman, Frey, Farland, etc..  It was this third generation that cemented notation as a tradition of banjo playing and teaching.  All of these names are just a small fraction of the professionals that were imitated by countless amateurs. 

There really was not a demand for banjo music until the very late 1870s.  There were early attempts of hand copying for commercial sales.  We know this was done by Converse, Baur, and even Stewart. All complained that it was too much trouble. 

The first sheet music published for the banjo came out in 1879 with SSS' first number "Home Sweet Home with Variations" arranged by E. M. Hall.  I can't find any commercial sheet music for banjo that predates this title.

This would exclude manuscript, "tutors", and folios of music.  I am talking specifically of sheet music.

With commercial goods, where there is a demand there is someone willing to meet it.  With SSS' publications the flood gates opened and the amount of titles published inside of 5 years is nearly unbelievable. One could deduce that prior to 1879 there was not much demand for banjo sheet music.  So one must conclude that "ear playing" was a common way to learn.

We do know that the early "tutors" do reflect what people were playing.  In that, they are a record of history.

It would also be incorrect to say that "the banjo was played by ear"-- that is an absolute which we know to be false as we have names of people who read and taught by notation. 

That said, we also have names of people who played by ear including Horace Weston.  The various members of the Dobson family were also relentlessly advertising their banjo schools which "taught by ear."

One must consider all of the other extant advertisements which claimed to teach the banjo in a few easy lessons without notes.  Something SSS complained about in his newspaper.

[nick Kelly]

was not Vess Osmann an ear player ? or have I been misinformed ?

Joel Hooks said:

The mandolin hit big in the 1880s.  It is a funny story of mistaken identity.  I am not an expert but the story is easy to find. It all began with the touring act of the Spanish Students.  Prior to the early 1880s the mandolin was pretty much unknown in the US (a historical fact overlooked by American Civl War reenactors).  By 1900 it looks to have peaked and started a slow decline that petered out about a decade or two later replaced by the tenor banjo of the same musical tradition (the tenor banjo being a variation on the mandolin and not of the "banjo" family).

I would argue that the banjo was largely learned by ear until the late 1870s.  Converse wrote about trying to convince other professionals about the merits of notation early on.  It was the generation that came of age during the post war industrial revolution that made learning and science a popular culture thing.  If we call Sweeney and his peers the first generation of 5 string players (including names like Whitlock, Horn, Briggs, Rice, ect.), the second would be Converse, Baur, Buckleys, Dobsons, Weston, Clarke,  etc., which brings us to the third generation that included Stewart, Lansing, Armstrong, Ossman, Frey, Farland, etc..  It was this third generation that cemented notation as a tradition of banjo playing and teaching.  All of these names are just a small fraction of the professionals that were imitated by countless amateurs. 

There really was not a demand for banjo music until the very late 1870s.  There were early attempts of hand copying for commercial sales.  We know this was done by Converse, Baur, and even Stewart. All complained that it was too much trouble. 

The first sheet music published for the banjo came out in 1879 with SSS' first number "Home Sweet Home with Variations" arranged by E. M. Hall.  I can't find any commercial sheet music for banjo that predates this title.

This would exclude manuscript, "tutors", and folios of music.  I am talking specifically of sheet music.

With commercial goods, where there is a demand there is someone willing to meet it.  With SSS' publications the flood gates opened and the amount of titles published inside of 5 years is nearly unbelievable. One could deduce that prior to 1879 there was not much demand for banjo sheet music.  So one must conclude that "ear playing" was a common way to learn.

We do know that the early "tutors" do reflect what people were playing.  In that, they are a record of history.

It would also be incorrect to say that "the banjo was played by ear"-- that is an absolute which we know to be false as we have names of people who read and taught by notation. 

That said, we also have names of people who played by ear including Horace Weston.  The various members of the Dobson family were also relentlessly advertising their banjo schools which "taught by ear."

One must consider all of the other extant advertisements which claimed to teach the banjo in a few easy lessons without notes.  Something SSS complained about in his newspaper.

[Joel Hooks]

I don’t know where you got that Nick, Ossman not only did a mountain of arrangements, all written in notation, that he sold to CE but he also composed.

[Joel Hooks]

Just reread Ossman’s interview. He had over 200 arrangements complete with orchestra accompaniment written out to sell to Clifford Essex. He also mentions the importance of studying scales and how he has studied harmony.

I would be interested to find out where you found that false information about Ossman being an ear player.

[nick Kelly]

well, looks like I got it wrong, was there some other famous player I may be thinking of ? I am sure I read somewhere that one of the "greats" played exclusively by ear, unless this sheer boredom period is making me crazy and, that is highly likely !

Joel Hooks said:

Just reread Ossman’s interview. He had over 200 arrangements complete with orchestra accompaniment written out to sell to Clifford Essex. He also mentions the importance of studying scales and how he has studied harmony.

I would be interested to find out where you found that false information about Ossman being an ear player.

[John Cohen]

Joel is of course correct about ear playing. I wasnt thinking of the ear learning courses offered by Dobson et al. I was thinking more in line with modern ear playing like one finds in the old-time community. My point was that from the earliest days of professional banjo playing music was written down bin notation some.

The mandolin did hit big in the 1880s, but it didn't really reach a popularity great enough to compete with the banjo until 1900 or so. Mandolin orchestras remained quite popular through the 1910s.

[Jody Stecher]

Being an ear player or being a note reader is not a choice for a note reader. One may be both.  A non-reader may play well without reading but a reader cannot play well without listening. 

A musician can be at once an ear player and musically literate.  All the good players who are note readers that I have met are very much both.

AND    at  the point that one has memorized what is written, that person on the threshold of playing possibly better than when reading. Part of the mind  or "brain power" that was occupied with looking at dots is freed up to listen. 

I am remembering being moved to tears by the flute playing of a teenage girl. She had learned —from the page,—some flute music composed by Faure´ . It was fairly complex, especially in the timing. She played as if she wrote it. Not with the music sheets in front of her but from the inside out. She had internalized the music and had truly learned it "by heart".  This cannot be done without being an "ear player".  To feel the music one must also actively be hearing it. But of course she was a note-reader as well. 

  Are there any on-the-spot accounts of the recording sessions of Ossman?   He does not play what is in his written scores.  It sounds to me like he is playing from memory on the records. And his different recordings of the same piece are sometimes a bit different from each other. If his are a *bit* different, Olly Oakley's are a lot different from each other and all are different from the printed score.  Does anyone know if either Oakley or Ossman had printed music in front of them during the recording of their records? 

John Cohen said:

Joel is of course correct about ear playing. I wasnt thinking of the ear learning courses offered by Dobson et al. I was thinking more in line with modern ear playing like one finds in the old-time community. My point was that from the earliest days of professional banjo playing music was written down bin notation some.

The mandolin did hit big in the 1880s, but it didn't really reach a popularity great enough to compete with the banjo until 1900 or so. Mandolin orchestras remained quite popular through the 1910s.