Which nylgut strings? (newbie question)

[Paul Bock]

Greetings all,

     I will be taking delivery soon on a 1925 Vega Style N 5-string conversion and want to start using nylgut strings.  As I see it I have four choices from Aquila:

1B, medium weight, wound 4th

2B, light weight, wound 4th

5B, medium weight, monofilament 4th (Red series)

6B, light weight, monofilament 4th (Red series)

     My question is:  As someone just starting out using synthetic strings for classic-style banjo (although I've learned and played several classic compositions songs with steel strings over the past 8 years), should I start with medium or light, and with wound 4th or monofilament? 

 

     Thanks in advance!

 

Paul Bock

Hamilton, VA

[Jody Stecher]

Wound 4th, medium weight. Packaged by Aquila as "Classical Banjo" strings . Just the standard set. They work very well on some banjos. It's the best set I ever tried on my Windsor Grand Solo. But not all banjos agree with these strings. Try a set and see.

[Mike Moss]

I'm just going to be my usual self here, bashing the nylguts... have you considered using Sands or Clifford Essex ground nylon CB sets? I have personally had better and more consistent results from nylon in terms of tone, volume, durability and intonation.

[Paul Bock]

Mike, at this point I haven't really "considered" anything except that to play classic-style more correctly I need to start using an open-back banjo and stop using steel strings.  Beyond that, it's pretty much a mystery world and I have to go by what other people recommend and are using successfully. 

I did find the Clifford Essex web page and I note they're in the UK, so the pricing & shipping would be more costly (even on their eBay "sell" page) than a domestically-available nylgut or nylon.  That's not necessarily a show-stopper, but I'll need to better understand the "whys" of spending that extra money.  In the steel-string world of Bluegrass I have yet to find any "specialty" strings that sound so much better than good 'ol GHS that they're worth the (sometimes significant) extra price.

PB

  

[Mike Moss]

Yes, you're right, they are a bit pricey in the US. I just checked at Elderly and they carry Sands nylon sets for $8, which is about $2 more than the nylguts.

I guess the question of tone is a matter of personal taste, I dislike the tone and feel of nylguts; they feel too thin and overtoney, and I prefer the fat, beefy sound of nylon heavies. However, there are people who really like the nylguts and who get a good sound from them.

That said, caveat emptor: I have had problems with the consistency/quality control of the Aquila nylgut strings.  I have had strings that were not true and would intonate poorly up the neck, which forced me to open new sets of strings to replace the faulty ones. I have never had that problem with nylons, which stay true all the way up to the 22nd fret. I have also had problems with the wound 4th in the nylgut set, which seems to go dull very quickly compared to the 4th in the nylon sets.

[Jody Stecher]

But Mike, you've only tried different types of strings on *one banjo*, right? and it's not an open-back either. 

[Mike Moss]

Nah, two banjos. One reso w/synth head and one JE Dallas 12" openback w/ natural vellum. I don't use the JED very often for recordings as it only has 17 frets.

[Paul Bock]

Excellent reply, Mike, that helps me "calibrate" the differences you have experienced (I'm a retired enginer so that's one of my favorite words, LOL!).

Since Elderly has Sands and Aquila I'll try a set of each just to see what differences I find.  If I like the Sands, I'll probably spring for a set of the Clifford Essex to see if they're worth the extra.

Thanks!

PB  

[Jody Stecher]

You can also make your own sets by ordering individual strings from Stringsbymail.com

I've had great success on certain banjos  with D'Addario classic guitar strings (of different sorts) and also with Savarez's line of "Instruments Anciens". I use the latter for the nylons on my Eric Stefanelli banjo and a standard Aquila fourth for the bass. Bill Evans now has the banjo Eric made for Rob MacKillop and he's currently using Aqulia nylguts and loving it. The best thing for my old  Clifford Essex Imperial(which now belongs to a student)  is Clifford Essex gut. Nylguts made that banjo sound horrible. Nylguts don't work on my Bacon Grand Concert either. Makes it sound insipid. But I've played them on dozens of banjos (not mine, I only have a few banjos) and with the right banjo and bridge Nylguts are fabulous.  

[Paul Bock]

Thanks, Jody, that's also good info.  I actually make up steel string sets for my Victor banjola using individual guitar strings so I'm familiar with the technique.

Looks like I have a "start-up" plan I'll go from there!  Thanks for all the info.

 

PB 

[Trapdoor2]

I started out with La Bella nylons (years ago) and then moved (ASAP) to Sands "heavies". When Aquila started selling nylgut banjo sets, I tried them out and liked their warmth and their somewhat softer feel under the LH fingers. Nowdays, the first thing I try on a new banjo is always Aquila Nylgut.

That said, it isn't for everyone and every banjo. My CE Special sounded just a bit better (than Aquila nylgut) with CE gut strings...but at $30 a set (plus shipping from UK), I decided the difference wasn't worth it. I have a Fairbanks "Special" which just sounds awful with Aquila Nylgut and will probably "wake up" with a set of Sands on it.

The Stewart Cello banjo is currently wearing a set of Aquila nylgut "Alabastro" guitar strings...but I had to replace the 2nd...and a 3rd from a D'addario "Pro-Arte" set has worked nicely. It isn't particularly relevant to your situation but the moral is: ya just gotta try 'em out and see what works for you.

Interesting to hear that Bill Evans is using Nylguts. Back some years ago, I attended a banjo-camp (Nashcamp) where Bill was one of the headliners...I provided a classic-style openback (my Flesher Cotillion) and a Minstrel banjo (a Dan Knowles) for him to use (instead of flying with three banjos). Both were Nylgut-strung. He hated the Nylguts and reckoned he'd never be caught dead using them. ;-)

[Steve Harrison]

My principal banjo is my Weaver and I have always used Chris Sands Medium with a Clifford Essex heavy 4th. I've tried this combination on my other banjos, in particular my Windsor Popular number 1, and it just didn't sound right. I tried Nylgut medium with a CE heavy 4th on the Windsor and there  was a marked improvement. It's just a case of experimentation until you find whats right for your particular banjo.

[Neil Angus Goodwin]

Hi, I posted the following on an already fairly old post so no one commented therefore I am re-posting it here as I would like to know if anyone has tried the mix of strings mentioned especially regarding some steel and some gut and the use of a silk cored wound fourth for correct intonation? I also wonder if anyone has tried the silk strings mentioned and if they are still made and if not would aramid fibre (kevlar) make good strings similar to silk, thoughts?

"Hi, I have an early 20's copy of "The Banjo and How to Play it, by Emile Grimshaw" (editor of BMG) published by Clifford Essex, here is what he says regarding strings in general and also specifically for the Zither Banjo.

lesson 43. Strings should be of the proper gauge. If too thick the tone will be dull and heavy, if too thin the tone will be weak. it is best therefore to buy strings from a firm that specializes on the banjo, and knows exactly what players require.

44. The fourth string of the banjo should always be silk wound with fine wire. Compound fourth strings containing a steel centre must be avoided, because they not only produce the wrong kind of tone , but they are seldom true when stopped at the higher frets.

45. The first, second, third and fifth strings may all be of gut, or they may be all silk (Tropical),

this is just a matter of individual taste. The great majority of players, prefer, however, to use a thin steel first string because it is always true, gives a clear tone and seldom breaks.

46. An ideal method of stringing the banjo is the following:- First string of thin wire, second silk (Tropical), third gut, fourth silk wound with copper - polished fine wire, fifth silk (Tropical);

47. The Zither - Banjo requires three steel strings, viz. the first, second and fifth, and it is important that they should be of the proper gauge. the third and fourth strings are the same as on the banjo.

He also says

53. The strings of the banjo require to be vibrated with more force than do those of the zither - banjo, the latter instrument must be played with the greatest delicacy of touch.


The punctuation is as in the book"