Technique: sixteenth-note triplet + eighth

[Ethan Schwartz]

This particular figure seems to pop up everywhere, at least for up-beat tunes. I go back and forth between fingering it T-I-M-I and T-I-M-T depending on the situation and how nimble my fingers are feeling that day. Lately, I've been finding that the final eighth comes out a lot stronger/clearer (and it should be, as it falls on the beat) using the thumb, but this can be awkward if the thumb is needed immediately after on the 3rd, 4th, or 5th string.

How do you all approach it? Or am I the odd one out for liking T-I-M-T?

[Ethan Schwartz]

Yes, and I use that "Morley style" I-T alternate fingering wherever possible, although there are still instances where I-M is unavoidable. 

As the preface to Joe Morley's Banjo Tutor states:

Although the Author invariably uses the thumb and first finger of the right hand on the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and 4th strings for rapid passages requiring double-fingering it will be noted that some of the exercises have been fingered so that they can be adapted for the use of the first and second fingers of the right hand on the 1st string if the student desires to employ that method of double-fingering...well knowing that the keen student will learn more this way than if everything was meticiously worked out for him and in addition he will then find that there are certain instances and brief passages where one must employ either one method or the other and where it is impracticable to use both methods. 

Well, food for thought. I also do things, like finding "melodic style" (a bluegrass term, but I don't know how else to describe it) solutions to fast melodic passages, that have me ignoring a lot of printed fingerings. This may partly be a holdover from many years of piano lessons and seeing my teachers frequently cross out the editor's suggested fingerings. 


Jody Stecher said:

Yes, that's what I'm saying. That is the usual order. But Joe Morley in his tutor book  is the only one of his era who advocated or even permitted the thumb to touch the 1st string.  So I was surprised that he advised +. .. . for this common motif.  I would have expected him to suggest or prescribe +  .   ..  +

Richard William Ineson said:

x . .. . starting with the thumb on the third string and finishing with the first finger on the first string.

Jody Stecher said:

Right. That's the usual annotated fingering. It's a bit of a surprise to me since Morley differs from most others in using the thumb on the 1st string.   I would have thought he'd indicate x .  ..  x  (TIMT)

Richard William Ineson said:

This is a very common motif in Morley's tunes, his fingering for it is X . .. .

IAN SALTER said:

Doh! I did not see that, so thank you for pointing it out Jody and also to Richard, thanks for the two examples.

[Jody Stecher]

The thumb-index movement is related to how a plectrum is used. Although the plectrum movement is *powered* by the wrist or forearm, the thumb *guides* the pick downward and the index guides it up.  As a mandolinist since age 12, I naturally gravitated towards thumb/index pairs on banjo,  especially on a single string.   I also use the "melodic" technique.  So does Marc Dalmasso, as can be seen his many videos.  When I first started exploring and playing Joe Morley's banjo solos I was surprised, and for some reason pleased, to discover that there are passages where what is now called "melodic" technique are explicit. This is decades before this way of playing appeared in the bluegrass field and before any of the bluegrass melodic players were born!

For those not familiar with bluegrass terminology, the so-called Melodic Technique involves a sequence of pitches in which each pitch ("note') is played on a different string. It also sometimes involves mixing open and closed (fingered) string in such a way that a note higher than an open string is gotten on a lower-pitched string at a higher fret than usual. At first this is counterintuitive, but one gets used to it.  Whenever possible the choice of which string and fret to use for a note is determined or influenced by the preference of allowing the right hand to play familiar patterns. 

Ethan Schwartz said:

Yes, and I use that "Morley style" I-T alternate fingering wherever possible, although there are still instances where I-M is unavoidable. 

As the preface to Joe Morley's Banjo Tutor states:

Although the Author invariably uses the thumb and first finger of the right hand on the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and 4th strings for rapid passages requiring double-fingering it will be noted that some of the exercises have been fingered so that they can be adapted for the use of the first and second fingers of the right hand on the 1st string if the student desires to employ that method of double-fingering...well knowing that the keen student will learn more this way than if everything was meticiously worked out for him and in addition he will then find that there are certain instances and brief passages where one must employ either one method or the other and where it is impracticable to use both methods. 

Well, food for thought. I also do things, like finding "melodic style" (a bluegrass term, but I don't know how else to describe it) solutions to fast melodic passages, that have me ignoring a lot of printed fingerings. This may partly be a holdover from many years of piano lessons and seeing my teachers frequently cross out the editor's suggested fingerings. 


Jody Stecher said:

Yes, that's what I'm saying. That is the usual order. But Joe Morley in his tutor book  is the only one of his era who advocated or even permitted the thumb to touch the 1st string.  So I was surprised that he advised +. .. . for this common motif.  I would have expected him to suggest or prescribe +  .   ..  +

Richard William Ineson said:

x . .. . starting with the thumb on the third string and finishing with the first finger on the first string.

Jody Stecher said:

Right. That's the usual annotated fingering. It's a bit of a surprise to me since Morley differs from most others in using the thumb on the 1st string.   I would have thought he'd indicate x .  ..  x  (TIMT)

Richard William Ineson said:

This is a very common motif in Morley's tunes, his fingering for it is X . .. .

IAN SALTER said:

Doh! I did not see that, so thank you for pointing it out Jody and also to Richard, thanks for the two examples.