Newbie

[David Gillespie]

Greetings from the US. I am new to this forum! I am wondering how to find the tablature for the Georgia Melody on the YouTube channel? I am so excited I can hardly stand it! I play claw hammer only but would love to learn how to play classic style. Thanks to the nice man! I wish I knew your name to thank you personally! David Gillespie 

[IAN SALTER]

David,

I appreciate that you I haven't mentioned using steel strings, but thought that you might find this discussion interesting. There are contributions from players on this site.

https://www.banjohangout.org/archive/120056

[Joel Hooks]

By the mid 1880s in the US the banjo pitch had raised generally to C, despite the continued use of A notation.

Your SSS was built to be pitched to C using appropriate sized strings.  The packaged sets on the market being sold by most are much heavier than what was used in the period. “Nylgut” polyester sets are nearly twice as thick!

I have more info on historical sized strings on my website.

[David Gillespie]

Wow that is very helpful thank you. I have a set of Nylgut for the SS Stewart, it may have never had steel strings ever on it. I would never use steel strings on it. What is your website brother? Thx

[David Gillespie]

Ian, no sir I actually dont care for steel strings and never have. I have played for some years with gut strings only for my minstrel banjos but have caved lately and started using nylgut. 

IAN SALTER said:

David,

I appreciate that you I haven't mentioned using steel strings, but thought that you might find this discussion interesting. There are contributions from players on this site.

https://www.banjohangout.org/archive/120056

[IAN SALTER]

I've played the fiddle for thirty years and only ever used gut strings and all of my ordinary banjos have gut and wound silk. For a couple of years, I've only been playing a zither banjo and have become used to wire strings. 

My choice of strings is to match the age of the instruments, as far as it's possible to research.

[David Gillespie]

Ian, I woudl love to get a set of gut strings again! Where do you recommend getting them these days sir? Thank you!

[Joel Hooks]

I currently know of two sets of string sizes that we can document. .017, .019, .023, .024, wound, .017.  This was the set used by Fred Van Eps and various other banjoists who were still living post WW2 when nylon came on the market.

This was the sizes of the orignial Labella no 17 (that is for .017).  For some reason they have now made these .019 retaining the same no. 17 designation.

The other set was published by S. S. Stewart and is .018, .022, .028, .024 wound .018.  This set was intended for "concert pitch" to C. 

I have personally found that the .018 work fine in Bb pitch on a typical sized banjo (around 11x27 or larger) and the Labella 17s (really .019) work for A pitch on era appropriate instruments.

The polyester strings sold in sets as "nylgut" are not actually based in any historical precedence. The company based their sets on "old timey" banjoists recommendation who were trying to simulate wire string tensions.  Because of this, those strings are VERY thick and often equal or exceed the tension of wire strings. 

They have also stopped using the wound 4th.  This is inexcusable, the 4th string on the banjo was wound from the earliest records we have of the banjo as we know it.  And for a good reason. 

I do not know your level of historical interpretation, but you mentioned "gourd banjos".  It usually comes as a shock for people to find out that the 5 string gourd banjo, basically a so called "minstrel banjo" neck attached to a gourd body, is a modern (1980s) creation of Scott Didlake and Clarke Buehling.  There are no extant historical examples of these 5 string gourd banjos known.  The idea is purely modern.  Thus, using them in a living history setting is anachronistic. 

If your goal in classic banjo is historically informed performance, then I would recommend you learn in A notation.  This is going to cover the late 1850s to the transition to C notation around 1908/1909 in the US.  Any A notation book will work, but I would recommend some focus on books that include alternate fingering.  This is usually found in later works but is really the key to playing smoothly. 

If you want to play turn of the 19th/20th century British music and later (post 1909) American banjo music then C notation is what you are looking for.

I actually started with A notation and added C later.  I can go back and forth, it is not difficult to read both once you get good with one.  But I would consider that "advanced".  My goal at that time was HIP, with a focus on the 1880s so A notation was it.  

But I really did not make better advancements in my playing until I started studying the Bradbury Mel Bay Method in C notation.  This book really changed my playing and technique. 

You might want to check out my article on historical banjo pitch here:

https://archive.org/details/abf-5-stringer-219

[David Gillespie]

As an 18th century reenactor and a South Carolinian these is are the types of Gourd Banjos I make and play, 4 strings. Also cant wait to see your article. This is a 1795 Painting from SC.  I am more interested in US Music contemporary with the SS Stewart from 1896-1910's I suppose. Thanks Joel

[IAN SALTER]

I buy handmade strings from Northern Renaissance Instruments. Unfortunately, they have been unable to procure the silk for the 4th strings. I have spoken briefly with Sue, who owns NRI and she said she would speak to Mimmo, who owns Aquila to see if he can help.

Aquila do this set with a wound silk 4th string:

https://aquilacorde.com/en/shop/modern-instrument-string-sets/timel...

Other suppliers of gut banjo strings, use either gut or synthetic materials for the 4th strings.

I'll phone Sue this week and let you know what she says.

[Richard William Ineson]

Regarding the strings used by Fred Van Eps, I had been privileged to examine and play some of the Van Eps flush fret banjos and also the 'Meal Ticket' banjo and Bill Bowen's banjo which has a Stewart hoop and a Van Eps flush fret neck, that banjo is/was also fitted with a tin beer tray as a resonator. Van Eps used very thin nylon strings, typically his third string was of a similar  diameter to a La Bella 1st string .017 or .019. Perhaps this was a throwback to the very thin gut strings which he and other banjo players used in the late 19th/early20th century?

Joel Hooks said:

I currently know of two sets of string sizes that we can document. .017, .019, .023, .024, wound, .017.  This was the set used by Fred Van Eps and various other banjoists who were still living post WW2 when nylon came on the market.

This was the sizes of the orignial Labella no 17 (that is for .017).  For some reason they have now made these .019 retaining the same no. 17 designation.

The other set was published by S. S. Stewart and is .018, .022, .028, .024 wound .018.  This set was intended for "concert pitch" to C. 

I have personally found that the .018 work fine in Bb pitch on a typical sized banjo (around 11x27 or larger) and the Labella 17s (really .019) work for A pitch on era appropriate instruments.

The polyester strings sold in sets as "nylgut" are not actually based in any historical precedence. The company based their sets on "old timey" banjoists recommendation who were trying to simulate wire string tensions.  Because of this, those strings are VERY thick and often equal or exceed the tension of wire strings. 

They have also stopped using the wound 4th.  This is inexcusable, the 4th string on the banjo was wound from the earliest records we have of the banjo as we know it.  And for a good reason. 

I do not know your level of historical interpretation, but you mentioned "gourd banjos".  It usually comes as a shock for people to find out that the 5 string gourd banjo, basically a so called "minstrel banjo" neck attached to a gourd body, is a modern (1980s) creation of Scott Didlake and Clarke Buehling.  There are no extant historical examples of these 5 string gourd banjos known.  The idea is purely modern.  Thus, using them in a living history setting is anachronistic. 

If your goal in classic banjo is historically informed performance, then I would recommend you learn in A notation.  This is going to cover the late 1850s to the transition to C notation around 1908/1909 in the US.  Any A notation book will work, but I would recommend some focus on books that include alternate fingering.  This is usually found in later works but is really the key to playing smoothly. 

If you want to play turn of the 19th/20th century British music and later (post 1909) American banjo music then C notation is what you are looking for.

I actually started with A notation and added C later.  I can go back and forth, it is not difficult to read both once you get good with one.  But I would consider that "advanced".  My goal at that time was HIP, with a focus on the 1880s so A notation was it.  

But I really did not make better advancements in my playing until I started studying the Bradbury Mel Bay Method in C notation.  This book really changed my playing and technique. 

You might want to check out my article on historical banjo pitch here:

https://archive.org/details/abf-5-stringer-219

[Jody Stecher]

My memory says that the few Van Eps banjos I have seen all had s scale of 28.5 inches. That would explain the thin string gauge. I don't think such narrow gauges  would work well on a banjo with a 26 inch scale.  Also, didn't Fred Van Eps (sometimes) use  fishing leader for his banjo strings?  That produces high tension at narrow gauges similar to today's fluorocarbon music string, so of course the gauges are thin. Otherwise the string would injure the fingers of the player..


Richard William Ineson said:

Regarding the strings used by Fred Van Eps, I had been privileged to examine and play some of the Van Eps flush fret banjos and also the 'Meal Ticket' banjo and Bill Bowen's banjo which has a Stewart hoop and a Van Eps flush fret neck, that banjo is/was also fitted with a tin beer tray as a resonator. Van Eps used very thin nylon strings, typically his third string was of a similar  diameter to a La Bella 1st string .017 or .019. Perhaps this was a throwback to the very thin gut strings which he and other banjo players used in the late 19th/early20th century?

[Joel Hooks]

Jody, .017 work great on standard size banjos.  Very loud and clear with excellent dynamic control.  

Many “modern” players who were weened on wire think they need heavy strings to simulate what they are used to.  I would argue that the classic banjo is a different instrument for the “old time” banjo.

It is this thinness that lead people to falsely believe that their original Vega nuts were cut for wire.