Historic Banjos for Sale

[Dave Houle]

PLEASE BE AWARE THAT THIS IS A VERY OLD SET OF BANJO HANGOUT ADVERTISEMENTS DATING FROM 2012. PLEASE DO NOT CONTACT THE THEN SELLER.

THIS IS AN OLD POST AND ONLY A REFERENCE TO THE QUALITY AND RARE INSTRUMENTS THAT WERE FOR SALE AT THE TIME.

Anybody got any extra cash?

I noticed these for sale on Banjobuyer.com:

Van Eps Banjo-Guitar
http://www.banjobuyer.com/detail.asp?cid=18996

Bill Bowen's Banjo
http://www.banjobuyer.com/detail.asp?cid=20770

Fred Van Eps' Banjo
http://www.banjobuyer.com/detail.asp?cid=20432

Joe Morley's Banjo
http://www.banjobuyer.com/detail.asp?cid=20790

Van Eps Flush Fret
http://www.banjobuyer.com/detail.asp?cid=27034

It looks like Morley's banjo got a price reduction since the last time I saw it.

Which one would you go for if you had some extra cash lying around?

[Shawn McSweeny]

Parke Hunter was recording duets with Ossman  and as part of the Ossman Banjo Trio in 1904.

Do we know that Parke Hunter performed in a duo as "Mays and Hunter" after 1903?

[Carmon Mays]

According to English newspaper notices during the period, Mays and Parke arrived in England in late 1896 and performed all over the country hundreds of times for the most part together until around January 1901. (They applied for their passports in 1896, Mays in Chicago, and Hunter in DC) They also did some recording in England in ca 1899 per a music catalog . After January 1901 Parke appears solo or with a couple of other partners in newspaper notices. Mays' name is not mentioned after this time in England. I believe that the partnership broke up around this date. Not sure why. Perhaps Mays got sick. I have documentation that according to a City of St Louis Mayoral annual report submitted on 23 November 1904, a group of patients from the City Insane Asylum were transferred to the State Hospital #4 in Farmington, MO. Cad L Mays' name appears on that list. So he must have returned from England and back to St Louis prior to this time.  I have been unable to find Mays mentioned in any account or document after this period, except his father died in Dallas, Texas on 8 Jan 1906 and according to a short obit in the Dallas news, he was survived by his wife, daughter and two sons. Since he only had two sons, this indicates that Cad was still living at the time of his father's death in January 1906. However,  there is the possibility that the family did not know of his death or whereabouts? I have been unable to find any death records in Missouri for Mays, and he is not listed as buried in the State Hospital cemetery. Not sure how good their records are for this period. When, Caddie's mother died in 1922, her only survivor was one of her daughters.  As for Parke he married an English actress by the name of Ada Zillah Price in 1899. According to some reports Parke and his wife came to the US ca 1903 and he continued to perform until his death on 25 Dec 1912 in Washington, DC. Some reports indicate that his wife returned to England after being in the US a few years. I can not find any documentation for his wife coming to the US, but did learn that she died in London on 30 July 1910 after giving birth to a male child in a hospital. She gave the child , born a day before her death, the name Hunter, but likely it was not Parke's child.  According to an article in an English newspaper her sister who was interviewed advised that her sister's husband was in America and that the two had not seen each other for years. Also it appears that Parke's full name was Morton Parke Hunter, but on his passport he used the form M. Parke Hunter, and it appears that he may have used the name in England of William Parke Hunter at times.

[Carmon Mays]

Shawn McSweeny said:

Cameron :

Searching the archives of The Music Trades Review recently, I found an article from 1926 that has puzzled me and which you  may find very interesting.

The article announces that banjoist Tom Carey is joining the staff of the Gibson company. The article then describes Carey's early banjo days and states he traveled in Vaudeville for six years with Parke Hunter, under the name of Mays and Hunter. See the article below. If true, then Mays survived his Asylum experience by a good many years and established a new identity for himself.

I have inserted a c. 1900 picture of Mays alongside the 1926 picture of Carey. There are enough facial similarities, separated by a quarter century of course, to make one take notice.

Perhaps another reader has more info on Carey. Or perhaps this is a lead worth pursuing on your part. If you are able to follow  this clue, and learn more, I would be delighted to be informed.

Thanks for the information. I will check it out and let you know.

[thereallyniceman]

Here is a snippet about "Morton" Parke Hunter:

[Shawn McSweeny]

Cameron :

Thanks for sharing your very interesting Mays and Hunter findings.

To help you research Carey, here is a second Music Trades article, from 1927, recapping the Mays and Hunter connection, identifying Carey's strong broadcasting connection and providing Carey's new shop address in Chicago at the time.

[Shawn McSweeny]

Carmon :

In a rare double case of "Poster's Dyslexia" I misspelled your name twice. Please accept my apologies.

[Carmon Mays]

No need for apologizes. My first name is somewhat rare for a man, but I was given the maiden name of my great-great-grandmother as my first name but in my family there have been 7 or 8 others who had to bear it also.

I appreciate all the information about Mays and Hunter. I plan to follow up on the leads.

Shawn McSweeny said:

Carmon :

In a rare double case of "Poster's Dyslexia" I misspelled your name twice. Please accept my apologies.

[Carmon Mays]

All I know for certain is that Cad L Mays was one of 97 inmates transferred from the St Louis City Insane Assylm to the Missouri State Hospital #4 at Farmington, Mo on 22 Nov 1904 according to a Mayoral report. Not sure how long he was in the St Louis Assylm or how he got there?  What happened to him after he got there, I cannot say yet? I have not been able to find any mention of him in any document after that date except as a survivor when his father died in January 1906. I have written a letter to the Missouri State Hospital #4 trying to ascertain if they have any death information on him. He does not appear to be buried in the hospital cemetery based on records they have on line, but I understand that their records for burials are not that complete especially for the early period. The cemetery there was used from 1903 to 1960. It has been designated as an historic location now. It is possible that he is buried in Dallas Texas with his father and mother. I checked with the Sexton in the Dallas cemetery a few days ago, and they have no record on him, but there is an unmarked and unidentified grave next to his mother and father that may be him. 

  I found two notices that may be Cad Mays and Hunter. One is dated 23 Feb 1901 in the New York Clipper of a Mays and Hunter performance there, and the second one is dated 19 Oct 1902, Brooklyn Daily Eagle indicating that Mays and Hunter are appearing at the Columbia in Brooklyn "fresh from Europe. I have not found independent documentation yet for Thomas W Carey appearing with Hunter in a Mays and Hunter team, but we have his word for it and I am inclined to believe it happened. Carey was born in Chicago in 1877 and died in 1946 in Michigan. He had very good skills on the banjo and had made many solo appearances, played in an orchestra, was a music instructor and worked for a music instrument maker.  Also his photo greatly resembles Mays, so it would be good business procedure for Hunter to get him to fill in for Mays as a ringer, since they had an established reputation in the US and Europe and could get more bookings based on this . Carey says that they toured not only England and the US, but the world. I saw another source that indicated that Hunter went to England multiple times.  I can find no documentation, but it could have happened. Also, Carey returned to Chicago in ca 1910 [and he got married in April 1910 in Michigan], and opened a teaching studio, and apparently did not make appearances again until about 1914, and this could have been after his 6 years with Hunter if they teamed up about 1904?

[Shawn McSweeny]

Carmon : 

Here is what I have been able to come up with:

The New York Press of Oct 19, 1902 also reports that Mays and Hunter are performing at the Columbia Theatre.  On Dec 28, 1902, the NY Press names  them as part of a concert at the Star Theatre.

No references to M&H were found for about the next three and a half years, until Variety of July 21, 1906, under billings for the Olympic Theatre, which reports "Mays and Hunter appeared for the first time in years. Their banjo play shows them adept in the manipulation of the instrument."

The New York Dramatic Mirror of  April 6, 1907 notes Mays and Hunter are appearing at the Olympic Theatre in Chicago, (part of the Vaudeville circuit).

It looks like the M&H act was reprised, and likely with Carey as a ringer for Mays. If the act held together until around the time of Parke Hunter's death, it would have run the number of years that Carey claimed he worked with PH as Mays.

[Richard William Ineson]

I always wondered about the real name of Parke Hunter, as the arrangement of 'Perlman's Brooklyn Cakewalk' published in England by Francis Day and Hunter is credited as being 'arranged by M.P.Hunter'  and also, the arrangement of Kohnhurst's ' An Old Kentucky Barbeque' a rare Chas. Sheard publication, from around 1902, is credited as being arranged by M.P.Hunter of 'Mays and Hunter'.

The 1901 British census shows that a Morton Parke Hunter and a Zillah Price Hunter were living in London at the time, Parke Hunter's Grandfather was Morton Craig Hunter a famous American Civil War, General, and it seems likely that the banjoist Hunter, was named Morton, after his Grandfather. The William Hunter who composed 'The College Rag' was someone completely different, in my opinion. Alf Lane who worked at the Metropolitan Music Hall and saw Hunter perform there,several times, omitted 'The College Rag' from his list of Hunter compositions which appeared in the B.M.G. as did Joe MacNaughton, a well respected authority on banjo history,and Hunter enthusiast, so I think that they both knew that Wm. was not Parke, though why they did not investigate the M.P. Hunter, initial mystery must also remain a mystery. Zillah Price Hunter was a singer on the music halls - she is mentioned in one of the newspaper cuttings which Mike Moss posted on this site some time ago. C.L.Mays suffered an injury to his head, as result of being kicked by a horse, when he was a boy (could this have cause his mental illness in later life?) I got this information from an American newspaper of the time, when I was trying to discover what the 'M' in M.P.Hunter stood for. A Morton Parke Hunter is also listed as a letterman at Wabash College in 1896, Hunter's Grandfather had also attended this college, so I think that the Morton part of Hunter's name is pretty well established. Why Hunter dropped the Morton part of his name and became known by his middle name, Parke is another mystery, I have a Ms of a, probably unpublished, Hunter composition, which is signed 'From Parke Hunter, Emerys Hotel, Brighton, January 7th, '98' which seems to show that he used the name Parke, rather than Morton. Incidentally, Emery's hotel only closed down ten or fifteen years ago, the ground floor rooms had just been turned into a kebab shop, when I arrived to see if Hunter had left any trace behind.

[Jody Stecher]

It's not unusual for Americans to prefer their middle name. I don't know why. 

Richard William Ineson said:

I always wondered about the real name of Parke Hunter, as the arrangement of 'Perlman's Brooklyn Cakewalk' published in England by Francis Day and Hunter is credited as being 'arranged by M.P.Hunter'  and also, the arrangement of ' The Darkie's Spring Song' a rare Chas. Sheard publication, from around 1902, is credited as being arranged by M.P.Hunter. The 1901 British census shows that a Morton Parke Hunter and a Zillah Price Hunter were living in London at the time, Parke Hunter's Grandfather was Morton Craig Hunter a famous American Civil War, General, and it seems likely that the banjoist Hunter, was named Morton, after his Grandfather. The William Hunter who composed 'The College Rag' was someone completely different, in my opinion; Alf Lane who worked at the Metropolitan Music Hall and saw Hunter perform there,several times, omitted 'The College Rag' from his list of Hunter compositions which appeared in the B.M.G. as did Joe MacNaughton, a well respected authority on banjo history,and Hunter enthusiast, so I think that they both knew that Wm. was not Parke, though why they did not investigate the M.P. Hunter, initial mystery must also remain a mystery. Zillah Price Hunter was a singer on the music halls - she is mentioned in one of the newspaper cuttings which Mike Moss posted on this site some time ago. C.L.Mays suffered an injury to his head, as result of being kicked by a horse, when he was a boy (could this have cause his mental illness in later life?) I got this information from an American newspaper of the time, when I was trying to discover what the 'M' in M.P.Hunter stood for. A Morton Parke Hunter is also listed as a letterman at Wabash College in 1896, Hunter's Grandfather had also attended this college, so I think that the Morton part of Hunter's name is pretty well established. Why Hunter dropped the Morton part of his name and became known by his middle name, Parke is another mystery.

[Richard William Ineson]

The last live reference to him, which I have found is in Dallas's Musical Monthly, May 1909 where Burt Earle met him in Detroit and said that he was going to 'frame up a large act with him' Hunter did not seem to be in good health by this time, I also remember a reference to him as appearing at 'The Oaks'in Chicago in 1909.

 

After that, there is just the brief mention of his death in The Cadenza and later, in the B.M.G. no biography, nothing really, but of course Hunter was not a protege of Essex he was in the Temlett/Dallas/Turner/Cammeyer camp.

 

As regards Cammeyer and Hunter, Cam said, "I knew that he had music in him as soon as I heard him improvising in my studio, he wanted to commence a teaching connection using my premises, but I'm afraid that he was mixed up with a class of chap that I couldn't possibly have coming up my stairs" (the stairs are still there in York Street, off Jermyn Street). The information about Thomas Carey is intriguing and, as you say, he does have some resemblance to Mays, but I have not come across him before.     

Carmon Mays said:

All I know for certain is that Cad L Mays was one of 97 inmates transferred from the St Louis City Insane Assylm to the Missouri State Hospital #4 at Farmington, Mo on 22 Nov 1904 according to a Mayoral report. Not sure how long he was in the St Louis Assylm or how he got there?  What happened to him after he got there, I cannot say yet? I have not been able to find any mention of him in any document after that date except as a survivor when his father died in January 1906. I have written a letter to the Missouri State Hospital #4 trying to ascertain if they have any death information on him. He does not appear to be buried in the hospital cemetery based on records they have on line, but I understand that their records for burials are not that complete especially for the early period. The cemetery there was used from 1903 to 1960. It has been designated as an historic location now. It is possible that he is buried in Dallas Texas with his father and mother. I checked with the Sexton in the Dallas cemetery a few days ago, and they have no record on him, but there is an unmarked and unidentified grave next to his mother and father that may be him. 

  I found two notices that may be Cad Mays and Hunter. One is dated 23 Feb 1901 in the New York Clipper of a Mays and Hunter performance there, and the second one is dated 19 Oct 1902, Brooklyn Daily Eagle indicating that Mays and Hunter are appearing at the Columbia in Brooklyn "fresh from Europe. I have not found independent documentation yet for Thomas W Carey appearing with Hunter in a Mays and Hunter team, but we have his word for it and I am inclined to believe it happened. Carey was born in Chicago in 1877 and died in 1946 in Michigan. He had very good skills on the banjo and had made many solo appearances, played in an orchestra, was a music instructor and worked for a music instrument maker.  Also his photo greatly resembles Mays, so it would be good business procedure for Hunter to get him to fill in for Mays as a ringer, since they had an established reputation in the US and Europe and could get more bookings based on this . Carey says that they toured not only England and the US, but the world. I saw another source that indicated that Hunter went to England multiple times.  I can find no documentation, but it could have happened. Also, Carey returned to Chicago in ca 1910 [and he got married in April 1910 in Michigan], and opened a teaching studio, and apparently did not make appearances again until about 1914, and this could have been after his 6 years with Hunter if they teamed up about 1904?