Classic Banjo Database

[Adam]

Hello All:

I've started work on a personal project to create a database of classic banjo songs. As others in this group might find such a thing useful, I thought I'd post a link to it:

http://tsomov.com/classicbanjo/

The database is in early stages at the moment (roughly 20 songs) so now is also the time for me to request suggestions / feedback from the community:

Is there a songbook/tutorial folks would most like to see in the database?

What other information would people like to see on the songs? Year written/published? Key or tuning?

Feel free to submit ideas and I'll try to work on the most popular first.

The source material for this database will, of course, rely heavily on material available at other sites (Banjo Clubhouse, Classic Banjo, and this site). I'd like first to say thanks to them (thanks!) and also make sure I haven't stepped on any toes by doing this ... If I've offended anyone associated with the banjo sites mentioned by undertaking this project, my sincere apologies ...

Finally, if any of the banjo sites mentioned would eventually like to host this database, I'd be happy to make a copy available ... I don't know if it will ever by "complete" but hopefully it can become a useful resource for people. Feel free to contact me via my profile.

I'm open to questions and suggestions, so please feel free to ask.
All the best,
Adam

[Carl Anderton]

This is very exciting, Adam, I applaud your efforts to make the music more accessable.

[Jody Stecher]

Wow, this is very ambitious and very generous. Have you been in touch with the banjo players in the ABF? (American Banjo Fraternity). They already have a large collection and might well be delighted to have the collection digitized. The number of tunes in their library is large but the personal banjo sheet music collections of some members number in the thousands. Just an idea.

Another idea: May I respectfully suggest replacing the word "song(s)" in your database with a word more descriptive of classic banjo music? "Tune", "Piece" "Banjo Solo" " Composition" all have venerable histories of successful use in the classic banjo field. For some folks, myself included, "song" denotes vocal music. If in doubt about what I mean or why I'm bothering, try singing El Contrabandista and you may quickly come to agree.

Good luck on your project! I'm glad someone has the will and energy to undertake such a thing. Now who will do it for 78rpm and cylinder recordings?

[Adam]

Thanks Carl and Jody. I'm glad you find the project worthwhile!

Jody ... I haven't contacted anybody at ABF ; it's a good idea, and one I'd like to pursue if the project reaches that level. Thanks for planting the seed. I have taken your suggestion to replace the word 'song' with 'tunes.' I hope that's an acceptable, generic choice for everyone.

I also wonder if the word 'composer' is really the right choice ... ? There are two version of Pic-Nic Reel, for example, in the database. One is by Baur and the other by Converse. To list them both as 'composers' of the song doesn't seem right. 'Arrangers' just sounds strange to my ears ... Maybe simply 'author?' As in the author of the songbook that contains the arrangement.

I am by no means an authority on this music, far from it! - so I welcome all suggestions and corrections. All of you here, I'm sure, know far more about this style of music than I do. I'm a fan and humble banjo player myself, but I'm just beginning down the road of classic banjo song-, er, tunes. :)

All the best,
Adam

[Trapdoor2]

Adam,

This will be a great thing to have! As Jody mentioned, there are literally thousands of works out there...many with multiple sheets. Somewhere I have read between 3,000 and 6,000 pieces written or arranged for the 5-string banjo from the 1850-1920 period. Many of these have multiple pages, duets, trios, piano parts, etc.

By and large, these bits are all "Public Domain" but those which have been reprinted since 1922 may be a copyright problem and you would need permission from the current copyright owner (or primary source ownership/permission) to use them.

Otherwise, I think this is a great thing to do. Hal Allert has the first large group of classic banjo tunes (and songs) available on the net, you might get with him and see how he stands on getting them into your database. Go to http://www.classicbanjo.com and look in the songbook section for his digital collection.

I am getting ever closer to digitizing my collection (bought lights and stands yesterday), which is intended for Hal Allert's site. I would be very happy to contribute...as long as the database remains free access for all.

[Jody Stecher]

Trapdoor2 said:

Adam,

Somewhere I have read between 3,000 and 6,000 pieces written or arranged for the 5-string banjo from the 1850-1920 period.

Unless my memory is playing tricks on me (*has* been known to happen) I seem to recall Eli Kaufman telling me he had over 10,000 items of classic banjo sheet music. Dot's alotta dots.

[Adam]

10,000 pieces?!? Eegads, that is alotta dots! Well, as I said, I don't know if this will every be a "complete" project - but I'll stick with it for awhile at least ... :)

Trapdoor - Thanks for the encouragement and suggestions. I will contact Hal Allert, as I do intend to use much of his material to create this database. My intention is in no way to overshadow or detract from existing sites - I only want to organize the pieces in a way that makes them more readily accessible - at least for me. Much easier to pull up a specific tune from a database than to go searching for it in a songbook ... (please don't get wrong: I do love having access to the pdfs of the fully scanned songbooks and tutors. I'm hoping this database can supplement and complement the work that has already been completed.)

The database is definitely intended to always be free for all to use ... My intentions are not commercial; I do appreciate your concern for that.

Back to work ... Lots of songs to catalog. :)

Best,
Adam

[Adam]

One more thing: I did truly appreciate Jody's suggestion to change the word "songs" to "tunes." If anyone has other suggestions for better ways to present this material, please make them.

Also, if there is other information you'd like to see in such a database (being able to see tunes by year published, for example) let me know ...

How to present this material is really a paramount question for me at this point.

I hope my request makes sense ... :)

[Jody Stecher]

J. Adam Latham said:

Also, if there is other information you'd like to see in such a database (being able to see tunes by year published, for example) let me know ...

How to present this material is really a paramount question for me at this point.

I hope my request makes sense ... :)

If a tune was commercially recorded, or even informally recorded (as on youtube or here for instance) it would be useful to have that noted in the data base and it would be useful to say if and where it is still commercially available. That presumes a lot of knowledge of course.

Speaking of youtube and commercial recordings there's a superb rendition of Whistling Rufus played by Olly Oakley up on youtube at the moment. It's a Gramophone Concert Record and you get to see and hear it spin. Just not the same with a cassette or CD or digital sound file. At least not for me who grew up with spinning discs and a turntable as his first toy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MGN4Pcim0mI

[Trapdoor2]

I also think linking to available recordings, youtube, etc. would be a great thing...but another magnitude of 'ambition', I think. ;-)

Just in case you didn't know, most of Hal's songbooks came out of my collection...and I'll be re-digitizing them along with the rest of my stuff. There is another box full (about the same number of books as Hal has up) over in England at the moment (I've been trying to get it back) so...eventually we'll have a good start on this project.

Bill Morris is the current "keeper" (librarian) of the American Banjo Fraternity sheet-music files. Joan Dickerson posted a spreadsheet of it over on the yahoo 'classic banjo' site. http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/classicbanjo/ look in the "files" section for "sheet music" and it is in there.

[Jody Stecher]

Trapdoor2 said:

Bill Morris is the current "keeper" (librarian) of the American Banjo Fraternity sheet-music files. Friendly fellow too. He's sent me many a photocopied banjo solo. At pennies a page as per ABF policy.

Joan Dickerson posted a spreadsheet of it over on the yahoo 'classic banjo' site. http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/classicbanjo/ look in the "files" section for "sheet music" and it is in there.

It's only viewable to *members*. Are the tunes themselves there or just the titles? I'm wary of the Yahoo rigamarole for group joining and wary of groups that don't allow viewing to non-members. Anyway I get the list (the same one) I presume, in the Five Stringer at regular intervals.

[thereallyniceman]

Trapdoor2 said:

I also think linking to available recordings, youtube, etc. would be a great thing...but another magnitude of 'ambition', I think. ;-)

And if we ask nicely I am sure Marc will enter them all into TablEdit to produce midi versions for us. It shouldn't take much time.......... and you know how much we all love them!!
:)

Ian

[Adam]

Jody and Trapdoor - Thanks for the suggestion of links to recorded versions of the tunes. You're absolutely right - great idea. As I'm still teaching myself how to read sheet music I know that I often rely on the recordings people have put up here, and on YouTube, etc to help me on my way. They've been invaluable.

As you say, that requires a lot of knowledge and adds another level of ambition ... Ideally, that information would be created by the users of the database themselves ... In other words, if Person X recorded a version of a tune and put it up on YouTube, Person X can add the link to that YouTube page into the database ... I'll have to give some thought as to how to make that work, but for now I think that's the best way to go ...

I'm interested in this spreadsheet Trapdoor talked about. Is there a way someone could send me a copy of it (or upload onto this site) without me having to join the Yahoo! group? I'd certainly be interested in seeing how the ABF has organized their listings.

Thanks again, guys.
All the best,
Adam

PS - Trapdoor - I didn't know Hal's collection came from your own ... You're obviously a good man to know! :)