Classic-Banjo
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Clifford Essex Boudoir Grand
Hello List--i just received a banjo purchase on Ebay from a seller in Memphis, TN. With the help of materials discovered on this list I have identified it as a Clifford Essex Boudoir Grand, all-wooden hoop, with rosewood neck and pot. The back of the headstock is stamped with the number 1552, which according to some sources here should date it to 1931-32, though others seem to disagree with that system.
It's quite a rare and special banjo, though there are many quirky details--clearly it has been modified a great deal over the last 90+ years. Here are some photos:
headstock%20read%20w%20serial%20no.webp
As you can (I hope) see in these shots, the banjo has two bizarre features that I've never seen on a CE product: the coordinator rods in place of the usual dowel-stick (or perch-pole as you call it!), and that strange wooden flange. The outside of the pot had been routed for a bracket band, but instead of that there's this elaborate wooden flange-hoop encircling the area where the bracket band would have been.
I can't see a scar where the perch-pole would have gone, so that is a puzzle.a But there's some glue residue and damage to the purfling between the hoop and the tone ring section, so the whole thing may have been taken apart and put back together at some point, whether at the factory or later. Would that strange flange suggest the presence of a resonator, and if so what kind?
The tuners and tailpiece are also probably recent replacements, frets too most likely. There are four missing bits of inlay, three of the engraved diamonds and a section of one of the deep-sea creaturish things on the fifth fret. The skin head is an old Rogers, so possibly original, though after all that's been done to it otherwise it seems oddly delicate not to have replaced that too. Looking for input from the group about the banjo as a whole, and especially the eccentric features--how and why? Could some of these changes been made at the CE factory either before or after WWII, or are they likely the work of some shade-tree luthier on this side of the pond? What would be worth restoring, and how might one go about it?
Please no lowball offers in the "I'll take it off your hands for 50 quid" vein! That's not the help I seek...
Joseph
Views: 65
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Jody Stecher on
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As you have observed, this banjo has gone through changes. Yes, the tailpiece and tuners have been replaced. I have no idea what to make of the wooden flange or the coordinator rods. The Boudoir Grand is a good banjo model but even in original perfect condition does not command a high price. So whether it is worth restoring is a subjective matter with a personal answer. It's probably not worthwhile as an investment for resale, But it might be worthwhile if you love the sound and look and playability of an un-altered original Boudoir Grand. As to *what* is worth restoring, aesthetically I would say "everything". How ? By giving the job to a skilled luthier who is familiar with this banjo model. They do show up in the USA from time to time. I have played two of them, both here in the US.
There is some controversy about whether this model has a tone ring. I have read descriptions of this banjo as having an ebony tone ring. On the two specimens I played the upper part of the hoop was painted black; there was no tone ring of wood or metal.
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Permalink Reply by Daniel Joseph Sobol on
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Hello Jody--thanks for weighing in.. Not sure if you'd remember, but I used to ride with you and the Berkeley Irish cats our to the Marin Ren Fair, during the draught summer of '76. Saw your posts here on the CE threads. Hope you're well.
I'm guessing that the "wooden hoop" model means that the tone ring was simply the bevelled edge of the wooden hoop, as on Deering's John Hartford model.
Any suggestions regarding luthiers who might know this model? I'd suspect I'd stand a better chance of finding one in the UK....
Joseph
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Are you the fingerpicking cittern player? Good daring stuff with verve, whether or not that's you. Where are you located? There are well-informed banjo repair folks all over. Out here in the Bay Area Paul Hostetter was the man but he has passed away, alas.
I remember working the Marin Ren Fair in 70 or 71 but was I playing Irish music there as late as 76? Possible I guess, Who was driving? Not me. I had no car, no license even!
In Clifford Essex lingo "wood hoop" means the hoop is not metal-clad.
Daniel Joseph Sobol said:Hello Jody--thanks for weighing in.. Not sure if you'd remember, but I used to ride with you and the Berkeley Irish cats our to the Marin Ren Fair, during the draught summer of '76. Saw your posts here on the CE threads. Hope you're well.
I'm guessing that the "wooden hoop" model means that the tone ring was simply the bevelled edge of the wooden hoop, as on Deering's John Hartford model.
Any suggestions regarding luthiers who might know this model? I'd suspect I'd stand a better chance of finding one in the UK....
Joseph
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Hi Jody--yes, that's me with the citterns. Lately I'm settled in upstate NY, but been all over--North Carolina, Chicago, Tennessee, Wales. I know a couple of luthiers hereabouts, but no one that pops out to me as a dab hand with British banjos...
The crew in '76 would have included Jeremy Kammerer, Cathy (can't remember her last name), and possibly Eric Thompson, though that wasn't his style so much. I'd take the bus over from Oakland to someplace on College. I remember you guys talking in the car about something called Cajun music, which at the time I'd never heard of. I'd never played an Irish tune yet myself either. Still sad that I missed the chance to sit in. I was part of a recorder/classical guitar duet back then, and would come home each day with sinuses full of Marin Co dust.
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Oh, Eric was... still is..... a skilled Irish tenor banjo player. After learning repertoire from immigrant box players Joe Cooley and Kevin Keegan. Eric even spent a year living in rural county Sligo absorbing the music, Cathie was Cathie Whitesides but she and Jeremy (and Eric) all lived in Cloverdale (Sonoma County) in those days, if I remember correctly.
Upstate New York....hmmm... whoever is good at old American banjos is likely to be able to have seen a number of CE banjos over the years and may be able to find good photos of the interior and exterior of the Boudoir Grand model. I'll let you know if someone comes to mind. Reverend Heng Sure, who is the director of a Chan Buddhist monastery in Berkeley and another in Queensland, Australia has, and plays, a very nice CE Boudoir Grand banjo. I dunno if he keeps it in the USA or Australia. But he visits the east coast from time to time and brings a banjo with him. But I dunno which one.
Daniel Joseph Sobol said:Hi Jody--yes, that's me with the citterns. Lately I'm settled in upstate NY, but been all over--North Carolina, Chicago, Tennessee, Wales. I know a couple of luthiers hereabouts, but no one that pops out to me as a dab hand with British banjos...
The crew in '76 would have included Jeremy Kammerer, Cathy (can't remember her last name), and possibly Eric Thompson, though that wasn't his style so much. I'd take the bus over from Oakland to someplace on College. I remember you guys talking in the car about something called Cajun music, which at the time I'd never heard of. I'd never played an Irish tune yet myself either. Still sad that I missed the chance to sit in. I was part of a recorder/classical guitar duet back then, and would come home each day with sinuses full of Marin Co dust.
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Yes, let me know if you think of anyone.
Pretty sure that was the group--you, Jeremy, Cathy, Eric, and maybe one other. Kate wasn't part of it. I remember thinking you all were having a lot more fun than I was.
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Just re-figured dates--it was the summer of '77.
Daniel Joseph Sobol said:Yes, let me know if you think of anyone.
Pretty sure that was the group--you, Jeremy, Cathy, Eric, and maybe one other. Kate wasn't part of it. I remember thinking you all were having a lot more fun than I was.
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Permalink Reply by Joel Hooks on
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I saw this when it was on ebay.
I am 99.9999999% certain that you have a CE neck on a completely newly made rim that is not related to CE.
While the images are not clear, a CE rim would have a hole for the dowel end bolt, this rim does not.
The stretcher hoop is of the generic Gibson patten variety with 24 hooks, as are the hooks and nuts.
I believe that this rim assembly is 0% Clifford Essex.
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Joel Hooks--nice name for a banjo afficionado! Thanks for the suggestion, it is indeed a possibility that some CE-enthusiast luthier decided to create his own take on the Boudoir Grand pot design, to couple it with an original neck with coordinator rods, and that that explains the deviations.
I would suggest that various details are also pretty close to what an original BG would have had--the routing for the bracket band underneath the strange wooden flange makes zero sense in an integrally designed repro pot. And the stratcher band and other hardware look pretty darn close to those pictured on this thread (24 hooks/nuts, non-scalloped stretcher hoop):
https://classic-banjo.ning.com/forum/topics/clifford-essex-banjos-d...
It makes me think that this pot may have been assembled laster as a special order from parts that were laying around at the CE factory?
Where's Clem Vickery Jr when we need him?
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Hmm.. without better photos I am now thinking that you have a Japanese rim. The wooden flange is replacing a one piece gibson style flange.
The nuts on your banjo are nothing like the original BG. You have generic Gibson pattern nuts. Your rim is different than the original.
Extremely doubtful that the original CE had anything to do with this rim. The new CE really has nothing to do with the original except that Clem worked there at one time. The have no parts laying around from the original CE beyond what they are able to collect second or third hand like anyone else could. They have no claim to original CE intellectual property. They are no more Clifford Essex than Derring is Vega.
The more likely possibility is that this neck was attached to a rim that has now been converted to a tenor banjo.
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Interesting hypothesis. Will upload some close-up photos shortly.
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Essex%20rim%20Bracket%20routing.jpeg
Daniel Joseph Sobol said:Interesting hypothesis. Will upload some close-up photos shortly.
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