Comment by Jody Stecher on February 9, 2016 at 20:30

Shawn: whoops. So it is. 

Comment by F. Chris Ware on February 9, 2016 at 23:19

Indeed, Benjamin -- thank you so much for your generosity in posting these. What a thrill, all around! As Shawn perspicaciousy said, it makes our hero into a real person to see him and his (your!) family like this.

The picture of Vess, sr. in the Victor offices is especially amazing; I believe that's Arthur Collins, second from left, and Byron G. Harlan, to the left of Vess (Vess's left.) I'm sure some other phonograph record collectors can identify the other two fellows, as well.

Again, thank you so much!

Chris W.

Comment by Shawn McSweeny on February 10, 2016 at 1:25

I added names to an enlargement. The only one I'm a little uncertain about is Meyer (bad focus).

All four to the right of Ossman were popular singers and recording artists. Collins had a successful solo career, and was also in the Peerless Quartet with Meyer. Collins and Ossman recorded several pieces together. Macdonough was a very popular tenor, a recording executive and Canadian, whose real name was John S. Macdonald. Harlan was a successful tenor vocalist and also performed in a comic duo with Collins.

Comment by Benjamin Stephens on February 10, 2016 at 4:58

Comment by Benjamin Stephens on February 10, 2016 at 4:59

Well everyone, we found the original Dixie song penned by Vess!  Hiding in the back of great grandma Helen's journal!

Comment by Benjamin Stephens on February 10, 2016 at 4:59

Comment by Benjamin Stephens on February 10, 2016 at 5:04

Also, in one of my first postings on here I had mentioned trying to find the whereabouts of the banjos Vess Sr. and Jr. used to play. A few of you had chimed in regarding them, there is further information we found while reading the journal!  Apparently, Rex Schepp purchased one of the banjos, and the other ( I assume his back-up?) he could not locate. 

Comment by Chris Cioffi on February 10, 2016 at 16:13

Hi Benjamin-

THANK YOU for posting these things....this is FASCINATING to us Ossman fans!

A couple things you might find interesting:

Carol apparently was a dancer with some public career and notoriety....she is on the cover of "Peek" magazine from a month in 1948 I THINK if I recall correctly.  

In your going through your family archives, you may be interested to know this and possibly be alert to any of her career memorabilia as well as Vess Sr and Jr's things....this might make some sense to you as well as you find different mementos with dates.

I would imagine her involvement in show biz came out of Vess Sr's career as Jr's was.

Second, I have a Berliner 78 disc from likely 1900 or 1901 that is titled "A Medley of Old Timers".

It is interesting in that as far as I know, this is the first recording of what Fred Van Eps would later record as "Dixie Medley"

Fred knew Vess, and was his....protege in a way from the perspective of how Fred sort of inherited Vess's position as the leading American recording banjoist of the same style.  The transition happened as Vess slowly transitioned out of recording so much and back to live performance in his late banjo career....this would be about 1910 is to about 1918 or so.

Fred was 10 years younger and learned from all of Vess's early recordings, then learned how to record, then started recording slowly with Edison in 1898 or so, and as his recording career grew, it coincided with Vess's recording career changing/slowing down, and Fred ended up being what Vess had been previously....the leading recorded banjoist of this style.

The Dixie Medley score you posted likely was Vess working out either for himself or for the orchestra score for some recording work, or possibly for Vess Jr.

I think this is very interesting as Van Eps was the one mostly associated with this tune/medley, and even Vess's early recordings of it are not titled "Dixie Medley".

Edison ended up using Fred's later version of it as one of the company/record lable's main promotional records so it was pushed quite a bit, and many, many copies survive...they are very common on Edison 4 minute blue amberol cylinder and Edison Diamond Disc.

Vess's recordings of "A Medley of Old Timers" or "Dixie Medley" are very rare.

When I initally took possession of my copy of Vess's version, I was expecting something totally different...perhaps an early version of  Vess's "Old Plunk's Coon Medley" or some other tune I had never heard, and I was almost shocked to hear him basically playing the same arrangement of what Van Eps would later record and be known for under the Dixie Medley title...the arrangment and tunes in the medley are very similar, and the ending is an ending that another banjoist used and was known for years later...forgot who at the moment....but it was intersting to discover with this record that Vess was first again, and as not unusual, patterned after for years after.

There is another rare Zonophone record I have of Vess doing a tune I can't recall at the moment where he used a fancy and idiosyncratic ending to the tune....again, Van Eps used this ending on an Edison 4 minute blue amberol cylinder recording of a tune he again would be associated with ..."Lonesome Mama Blues".

I was smiling in surprise when I first heard my copy of the Zonophone disc and realised this was Vess's ending years before Van Eps used it.....I had been familiar with the Van Eps recording years before I found the one with Vess doing the ending years earlier.

The interesting thing is that I have another copy of the same title also on the same Zonophone label of the same era, and Vess plays a different ending on that pressing.

Continued.....

Comment by Chris Cioffi on February 10, 2016 at 16:14

Continuing...sorry, the post has a limit on how much hot air I can contribute at a time.....

Vess and Fred knew each other, frequently recorded for the same labels and even recording the same tunes in an overlapping recording career for both of them that would have been a period lasting about 10 years, give or take, and likely played some of the same tours and gigs, so would have known each other, as well as evidenced by how Fred would speak about Vess in interviews years later.

And, obviously, Vess was Fred's first banjo hero early in his development.

Regarding the picture in the Victor room....

That likely is a photo of the Victor Recording Artist Troupe that toured together for a few years right around the World War 1 era.

This was a "package show" of several of Victor's leading recording artists, and a few of them are in the picture with Vess.

This package tour was a promotional tool by Victor....just like touring artists and labels do now.

Vess toured in this troupe for a while, and then for a few reasons, some sort of known, and I'm sure others not, Fred Van Eps took Vess's place in the troupe.

This was also during Vess's career period of his slowing down in the number/frequency of recording sessions he did as he went back to live shows as his focus.....this period for your own insight in looking through your family things would be some steady Hotel and Restaurant gigs in Dayton, OH for a few years, then St. Louis, MO, which is where I think Vess Sr is buried....Valhala Cemetery if I recall correctly.

Vess was also touring at this time, not just playing the local steady hotel gigs, as evidenced by what we know about how he died....during a weekend engagement in the upper Midwest.

So, apparently, your family would have moved to Dayton then St. Louis after Vess Sr. stopped being involved in the Victor Famous Recording Artist touring troupe.

Anyway, I believe that is the nature or situation of that group picture in the room with the Victrolas.

Benjamin, this is all fascinating to us, and we really appreciate you sharing all of this with us.

I, and I'm sure many others here, would be appreciative and interested in any other things like that that you are willing to continue sharing.

Speaking for myself at least, I'd be intensely interested to see and/or have copies of any of Vess's musical scores, especially those like Dixie Medley that he hand wrote, and also any other writtings about his arranging or musical thoughts regarding the banjo or his accompianists.

Thank you again, Benjamin!

Best,

Chris

Comment by Chris Cioffi on February 10, 2016 at 16:33

Benjamin,

One concept I didn't explain that might make some more sense out of my previous 2 posts is that as Vess's recording career slowed, and Fred's got more active, when a record company's masters/stampers (the master recording that the actual records are made from) wore to the point that the records it could press would start sounding bad, the company (and most of this info I am referring to is from what I know about the Victor records, which would be the lion's share of Fred and Vess recordings in this period) would require a new recording session to re  record the same tune to continue manufacturing it.

Many times when this happened in this time period, when Victory needed to re make a tune they were keeping in the catalog, Fred Van Eps would re-record the same tune for the same Victor catalog number that Vess had previously done and obviously had created a demand for.

There has been speculation about why this was the case, but it seems to me that since this happened during this transitional time in Vess's career, he was likely not available since he had moved and changed the focus of his career, as well as the fact that politically within Victor, likely the concept was on the exective's minds that Fred was now representing Victor in the Famous Artists Package show instead of Vess being the banjo artist previously, so possibly it made sense to Victor to have Fred re make the tunes instead of Vess....

Or it could be the other way around...if Fred replaced Vess in the shows, they re made the records specifically for that reason at that time.

No one knows the answers for sure decades later, other than the fact the Fred spoke of these things in some of his surviving interviews....

....maybe some of the answers are in your family memorabilia.

Best, 

Chris

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