Comment by marc dalmasso on October 6, 2013 at 18:06

I have the original 78 rpm  and you  can find it  digilalized on the web . The small mistake Fred make at 1 mn 21 '  ( the open C ringing while he 's playing in 3rd position )  is rich in knowledge for us . ; prooving that he 's playing a tune in the key of D  with the bass in regular C and  , tuning our banjos on this open C note , give us the real tempo of the reel , he is playing ..!  !   !   !   machine gun

Comment by thereallyniceman on October 6, 2013 at 19:14

Great playing Marc!  Thank you for posting this.   Your forensic analysis of the tuning is excellent and very interesting too.

 

Now we know how what to tune the banjo to, all we have to do is play it as fast as Van Eps, but wait a moment… here is Fred now:

 

DALY’S REEL by Fred Van Eps

Comment by Jody Stecher on October 7, 2013 at 5:11

Charles, I play Irish music too. Of course it is possible and also desirable to use classic banjo technique to play authentic Irish dance music. But THIS  "reel" is not the same kind of music as the dance tunes in Ireland called "reels", even though the name Daly is Irish. Van Eps' timing and also Marc's timing are not intended to be the same as the timing for Irish music. Daly's Reel is not an Irish tune. In spite of this it is interesting (to me anyway) to note that  if one listens to the earliest recordings of Irish dance music one often will find a similar kind of timing, with none of the swing (in all senses of the word) that has been associated with Irish reel playing in the last 60 years or so. Listen to some more Van Eps before you call him awkward. Believe me, he did exactly what he wanted and was in no way hampered by the usual banjo tuning.  Listen to Van Eps play "Grace and Beauty" and tell us if you still think he was encumbered by his tuning.

Comment by Charles Pool on October 8, 2013 at 3:50

RSVP to JODY:  Before I read your comment I listened to this piece a second time.  I changed my mind, at which point I attempted to delete my comment, but apparently was not successful.  Altogether, the piece is quite well played, and I agree with you.  What I first thought was 'awkwardness' was if fact, just what was intended by the composer, and simply new to my ears, more used to hearing 'traditional Irish' performance.  This is simply not an Irish style reel, in the same way American 'old time' reels don't sound Irish either, though they are related there are stylistic differences.  As for Van Eps playing, per se, he has total mastery of the instrument and is not the least bit encumbered by the tuning.  I have in fact listened to many of Van Eps pieces. 

My only "complaint" of Van Eps and some of the other excellent banjo players of the era might be that they sometimes play Rags a bit too fast.  This point I echo from the notations and comments that Scott Joplin appended to his piano compositions.  I think, in fact, he may of had these banjo players in mind.  This is a critique of musical interpretation, not of technique.

Comment by German David Patarroyo on October 8, 2013 at 4:29

A nice playing as usual Marc, congrats!

Comment by Jody Stecher on October 8, 2013 at 5:09

Charles, I think we are in agreement on all points.

ps: I must have seen your post during the short time it was visible.

Comment by Eric STEFANELLI on October 8, 2013 at 7:50

Good playing Marc ! The tune is hard and fingering too, you have some reasons to adapt the left hand fingering by using thumb on 5th stringup the neck, it is mainly used in melodic  bluegrass banjo style but why not !!!? You will become a great ayatholla of fingering ;-)

Comment by Mike Moss on October 8, 2013 at 8:11

Hi Charles,

I don't think Joplin had banjo players in mind when he wrote "not fast" -- he was probably referring to showoff piano players who, according to Artie Matthews, "delighted in outplaying Joplin with his own music". Keep in mind that, as far as I know, the first recording of a Joplin piano rag on the banjo was relatively late (Ossman, 1907?) even though rags had been recorded on the banjo since 1897.

Also, what would Joplin think of the 1970s revival school of slow ragtime? Since he cut a few piano rolls, we actually do know what he played like: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9E5iehuiYdQ&list=PL2BF5A477B6CEEEC2

Comment by Charles Pool on October 11, 2013 at 5:05

OK  I would not dispute what Artie Matthews states.  However, long before I discovered this classic banjo site, I had heard some pretty blazing fast banjo arrangements of rags from that era.  Sorry I can't specifically remember who was playing, now.  If I run across them again I'll site them.

As for Joplin's playing... here in St. Louis today most players with the ability hit pretty close to the tempo given in the example you posted.  You'll particularly notice that it is a very danceable tempo.  Spritely but not too fast that the dancer must run to keep up with the tempo.

As for the 'School of Slow Ragtime", in discussions I had with one or two of its practitioners, they all came from a classical piano background.  As pianist the were interested in exploring the lyricism found in many of the pieces in a concert rather than a dance setting.  Were they to play for a dance, or to give a 'historically' accurate rendition in an educational setting, then they would return to more traditional tempos exemplified in Joplin's piano rolls.  I have found that many well formed melodies can hold their own in a variety of tempos and even varied musical styles as well.  Many of Joplin's rags hold up well like this, as do those of Joseph Lamb and James Scott, in my opinion.  And, of course, let us not neglect the most beautiful of rag time waltzes, "Bethena" also a Joplin classic, which works rather better at a relaxed tempo than a quick one. 

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