Ragtime Episode help!

[Daniel PEARCE]

Hello folks ... I hope you can help me. I'm having trouble with the Ragtime Episode tab I've got. I can't work out the fingering as it seems so fast! Do you pinch with the thumb and forefinger on the 2cnd bar or use the ring finger to maintain the speed?? I'm used to rolls on bluegrass and knowing how the fingering works but I really can't figure this one out. I don't expect to be as good as Rob Mackillop and others but any help would be most welcome. Thanks in advance!

[Trapdoor2]

And...I'll say Jody is full of bologna. It is not *better* to learn/play by ear. It is best to learn the piece the way you learn best...be that by reading notation, TAB, having someone show you note by note or by ear or whatever. They're all *best*. They're even better if you listen to the piece before, during and after.

If you need TAB made from any of the dots we have on hand. I'll be happy to convert them for you. My TAB isn't *usually* wrong. ;-)

[Jody Stecher]

Sometimes I'm full of bologna, and sometimes baloney. But today I had a hot dog for lunch. Grass fed beef! From Trader Joe. Not bad at all. What I said, Marc, was that it's better to learn by ear than to learn from an incorrect tab. And I didn't mean that tab of classic banjo is usually wrong. I meant all the banjo tab taken together including bluegrass and old time styles and the very small fraction of classic banjo pieces that have been tabbed. Of that massed collection, very little of it is error-free.  The reason it is usually wrong is because it is usually written by people who did not listen very closely to what they imagine the tab is representing. The fingering is usually not what the reliable player being tabbed actually did but is instead what the tabbed would like it to be.  In the case of a tabber making their own arrangement of a traditional old time melody or a bluegrass song or instrumental  well over 90% of the hundreds of tabs I have seen *accurately* represent a dumbed-down melody. I call that "wrong", no matter what I had for lunch.

 But I'll play devil's advocate and counter your idea with the evidence garnered from over 50 years of teaching and observation. People who learn by ear are typically  able to later learn from notation and/or tab. People who first learn from Tab ( I mean correct tab, by which I meant tab that corresponds to  a live performance and/or a staff notation representation) have a very difficult time learning by ear. People who first learn from staff notation tend to have a hard time remembering the music they played from reading a score. People who learn initially by ear tend to have an easier time remembering what they learned from tab or staff notation. I have been watching this closely for years and my conclusions are evidence-based.   Of course there are exceptions and of course everyone is different and what is best for them is what is best for them. No irony intended.

[Daniel PEARCE]

Both tab, ear and notation would be beneficial I think .... sitting on the fence and having not as much talent/experience as you chaps!

[Daniel PEARCE]

However, the notation seems to have a rest right at the beginning of the second measure/bar of ragtime episode in rhe music library. I could certainly be wrong though and playing 8 notes as you instructed Jody has transformed the piece!

[Daniel PEARCE]

I'll also add that I rely too much on tab and wish I could play by ear better!

[Daniel PEARCE]

Trapdoor 2 I would love tab made of those scores for Ragtime Episode.

[Jody Stecher]

Well all I did was listen to the Van Eps recording, copy and paste into Peggo,tv where I created an mp3 file which I put into the Amazing Slowdowner. At 20% speed I was able to hear what the player was doing. (Van Eps is lightning fast and my mind is slower than lightning) and at the start of the tune there is no doubt that the second measure starts on the downbeat on an open bass string. He does it every time until the second part of the tune begins. Maybe later in the tune he does what the notation says. I didn't get that far.  

As for hearing better, this is not something that many are born with. It's a skill that develops as one uses it more. It's like a mental muscle. 

[Daniel PEARCE]

Well ..... I'm extremely grateful for your help and the Van Epps recording is a lot faster than some of the others I was attempting. This has been an education! I think I'll invest in that software too. Seriously ... thanks again

[Jody Stecher]

You're very welcome. By the way, Marc (Trapdoor2) is right that learning from paper and ink is better when combined with listening. From my perspective that is not learning from Tab or from notation. That is learning by listening and looking and thinking. And that is great.

The reason I think staff notation is better than tab is because the score actually looks like the tune. The patterns ascends and descends as the melody does.  Tab is a map of fingering. There are two kinds of transcriptions. One is called Prescriptive and the other Descriptive. Tab is prescriptive. It says "put your fingers here".  A staff notation transcription that shows fingering and what strings to use —many classic banjo scores are like this — is also prescriptive.  A descriptive transcription says "this is what Fred Van Eps (or someone else) played on this occasion and this is how he did it."  It doesn't mean another player cannot decide to get the same notes and rhythms using different frets and fingers.

[Daniel PEARCE]

This is quite exciting. The staff notation Trapdoor 2 sent is becoming readable for me. As you say it doesn't tell you EXACTLY what to do but this is better in many ways and opens up a lot more music. As a teacher myself, we always get into trouble if we tell students precisely how to do everything. They maybe learn, but without real understanding or confidence. I have done the same as I don't really know what key Skeleton Dance is in and how to improvise around it but can play it.

I wonder if you think it's possible to pick up any piece of music, say Bach for the piano, and transcribe it or play it by sight on the 5 string banjo?