"There's a Vibrante that was just listed on Ebay, but the price is too high (1300 GBP). I know of a couple that recently sold privately for $650-800."
Classic-Banjo
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John Cohen's Discussions
Want to trade Whyte Laydie for SS Stewart
1 Reply
Hi all, I have a lovely, all-original 1920 Whyte Laydie that I'd like to trade for an SS Stewart or possibly a Bacon FF Professional. Please message me if you're interested.Continue
Started this discussion. Last reply by John Cohen Feb 11.
Lloyd Longacre
1 Reply
Hello Shawn,Do you know what model or models of banjo Lloyd Longacre played?Regards,JohnContinue
Started this discussion. Last reply by Shawn McSweeny Sep 27, 2023.
Looking for Hartnett Tone Bars
I'm looking for a few Hartnett Tone Bars. If you have one or more for sale, could you please contact me? Thanks!
Started May 31, 2023
Weavers for sale
Hi everyone, I have a handful of professional-size Weavers for sale and would like to see them end up in the hands of players. Please contact me if you're interested.Continue
Started Dec 2, 2022
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"I wouldn't do that to a regular banjo."
"Very few zither banjos have held up well over the years due to the way that they're constructed. If you're serious about playing one, I'd suggest waiting for a Weaver or a Cammeyer Vibrante to turn up."
"Nobody seems to have addressed the final question asked by Ian. The answer is a resounding "yes," genuine Weavers are better, in my opinion, than the copies I've handled. Some of the copies, such as Joel's metal-hoop special,…"
"I believe that it is in one of the small ones alongside another Cammeyer, though my memory might be failing me as well!"
"I covered these Weaver lookalikes extensively in the presentation on Weaver that I gave at the Banjo Collector's Gathering some years ago. I also showed images of a Weaver copy that was likely passed off by the Bohees as the real thing. They…"
"This is not a Weaver neck. The transition of the neck to the peghead, the shape of the shield inlay at the peghead, and the thickness of the fingerboard all make this clear. "
"There is a Cammeyer New Era Deluxe in one of Tsumura's books.
As far as Weaver is concerned, I have never in all of my years studying and collecting these banjos seen a Weaver neck affixed to another maker's pot. I have seen plenty…"
"I don't think it's fair to conclude from period recordings that these players didn't employ dynamics and varied timbres in their concert playing. "
"I think we need to distinguish between genuine techniques/styles and the attempt by amateur, sloppy, and/or untalented players to imitate genuine techniques/styles. I find it hard to believe that there were thousands of uppicking styles being played…"
"I'll add that there is no clear delineating line between banjo-style playing in minstrelsy and guitar-style in minstrelsy. Plenty of minstrels played guitar-style. So no, there is not a direct line from minstrelsy to old-time that bypasses…"
"Jody, what you're saying is obviously true within its context and is consonant with my own experiences playing jazz and other improvisational music forms. However, classic style banjo is not jazz, nor is it particularly improvisational.…"
"I'll add Grimshaw to the list. You and a Canoe has a lovely second that is, in my opinion, more difficult than the first."
"I'd like to push back a little on this notion that good ear players make good accompanists. Though this is true in a rudimentary sense, many pieces in our repertoire have thoughtfully-composed, intricate second parts that are only accessible to…"
"It's the best sounding and playing example I've owned. Beautiful patina. The neck is truly straight. The original frets have minor fretwear at the lowest positions, but this doesn't cause me problems. The action is just right for a…"
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Comment Wall (15 comments)
- At 14:34 on June 19, 2023,
Cana Rochbell said…
Hey there, appreciate the comment. I only use my nails for banjo :) I typically play in a clawhammer style as its easier on my joints. What you are seeing on my fingers are just splint rings, a medical device for those of us with weak hypermobile joints, they correct that issue.
I'm all for experiementation swapping bridges around but this bridge is indeed correct. I have another 1800's-1920 zitherbanjo (a george houghton reliance) with a similar bridge but without the ebony cap. Both feature a bridge of similar width and height with no legs. I'm not certain if you already know this or not but my banjo is made entirely of aluminium, with a maple top over the aluminium neck then ebony top over that. There is steel bracing inside the neck every few inches. It can withdstand medium strings just fine. The nut is also made from steel. If ever there was an instrument worthy of experiementing stringwise would be this one. I'm all for seeing what the clifford essex zitherbanjo string set will sound like on it. I did swap over the 5th string to nylon as a small experiment while I wait for the strings to come in, and the result was quite plunky ended up swapping back to the martin. Current gauges are .010, .012, .016, .023, and 5th is .010.The Martin strings are what this banjo was setup with about a week ago when I bought it from previous owner. The sound is quite something in person. I am however waiting on shipment of zitherbanjo strings from clfiford essex; I do have zither banjo strings from clifford essex on my george houghton zitherbanjo. If I recall correctly these legless bridges were designed to be resistant to tipping. This is probably the third banjo from this time period that I aquired with this style of bridge with a continous foot. I definitely think this is a period correct bridge. Maybe its not the most popular but I do like this bridge. Its got wider string spacing than other bridges. I did order a 2 foot bridge but the string spacing was considerably smaller, I like this wider spacing.
- At 14:35 on June 19, 2023,
- At 15:25 on June 19, 2023,
John Cohen said…
Ebony capped bridges are a product of the 1920s. Even then, they were not used on zither banjos. The mixed stinging of the zither banjo is essential to its sound and the compositions written for it. As for Ellis' book, he's writing about the regular 5-string banjo, not the ZB. He's correct that some players uses steel strings, but they did this because of the significant cost of gut strings. Professional and other serious players used gut or silk strings on the regular 5-string.
- At 15:52 on June 19, 2023,
Joel Hooks said…
Cana has covered up some important information just before the wire strings mention in Ellis. Has nothing to do with cost.
- At 15:57 on June 19, 2023,
Your bridge appears to be just the top of a modern (post 1930s) wire string bridge. It likely had the rest of it chopped off to make it lower.
It is possible that the neck or rim has sprung forward causing you to have to use a very low bridge.
- At 16:00 on June 19, 2023,
The version of Ellis that I have is unrevised and omits the bit about steel strings. What other reason is listed? Humidity? Availability? Pick playing?
- At 16:01 on June 19, 2023,
Regardless of the reason listed, the biggest driver of wire string usage was the cost of gut strings.
- At 17:14 on June 19, 2023,
I believe that if the page is reposted with whatever is held covering text removed it would reveal something about playing with a mandolin pick on wire strings. For some reason Cana wanted to cover that part up.
- At 19:08 on June 19, 2023,
Hey there @Joel Hooks. Slow down there with the accusations my friend, Making me sound devious or like i'm withholding essential information on purpose. i'm not intending to cover anything intentionally, I was highlighting above the stick I was holding that it is mentioned that playing with the back of the nail and thumb was used back then just as John Cohen stated before. Always found it neat that this book mentions that style and its uses. Yes this is the revised version of his book, it cost a few cents more than the original one did I assume inflation happened back then.
I notice there is no revised PDF version of the book I have on the forum yet. Might be something to look into in future. Quite a few of the pages are different to the original unrevised one.
My banjo's neck is very straight, no fretbuzz anywhere. I can't reall comment where the bridge came from all I know is that I've had several zitherbanjos so far and all have had no leg bridges. This one is definitely my first with a two piece legless bridge. I typically prefer a 2 foot bridge with ebony top but this one is a perfect height for me at 0.5/ 0.6 feels just right for clawhammer especially with this string spacing. Finding it really easy to play. Especially since this banjo only weights 5.6lbs in total weight.
I've only really been playing off and on for about 14 years though. Let me know if you guys have a particular page you guys want to see, I've posted a picture of the table of contents, feel free to pick some pages and ill try and get round to taking good pictures of them. Quite difficult to upload pictures on here one at a time with such a tiny window to view to see if I posted the same one or not already haha.
Anyway let me know if you wanna see any particular page and ill try and get round to taking a clear picture for yeah. I aint here to hide info or argue with anyone at all.
- At 19:30 on June 19, 2023,
Ah! So the nails on wire picking is in reference to zither banjo playing.
Regarding the down stroke or "clawhammer"-- in period sources this is called "banjo style", "stroke style" or "thimble style" (as a banjo thimble was often employed over the fingernail) and is considered to be the "original" banjo style.
For further reading on stroke style I recommend Frank Converse's "Analytical Banjo Method", or any American book printed before about 1870.
I would be interested in learning how common stroke style was in England, in the late 1890s, on a zither banjo.
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