Questions about Morley / Arrangements (guitar)

[Rémi]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6zieBpN8fzI&lc=z12ggnqirtupi5ml...,

I discovered this amazing music after hearing the really nice guy playing his tunes.

I m also very surprised to see the year 1894 on the score of the tune I just arranged.

But every other Morley's score I checked, there wasn't any date. This 1894 is this only time reference I found about the date of publications of his work. Does all the pièces (shared here on this website) are from between 1894 and 1900 ? When they were published, was one by one or was it a pack of a few or a lot compositions ?

Sorry for all this questions, and my English is really not very good, thanks for this cool website.

Have a good evening

[Anthony Peabody]

Remi,

This is a very difficult question, and to which there is not a simple answer.  As far as we can see,Morley's first published piece was Violet Mazurka, and the publishing date is usually said to be 1893, and published by Essex and Cammeyer as E&C 21.  It is also quite likely, (probable I would say) that some of these had been written earlier, when he was playing with various "minstrel" groups, for instance Shanklin SChottische, Royal Osborne Gavotte and Colwyn Bay Polka.

After that the position gets much more difficult, and often depends on dates written by an unknown hand on some copies.

We know that pieces in the Morley Tutor were published in 1929, but some of these appear to date from an earlier period, and he was continuing to publish with John Alvey Turner well into the 1930s.  The market for banjo music was not only slow by this time, there were also a lot of other people doing the same thing.

During the end of his career, when he was playing with the White Coons and the Kentucky Minstrels on the radio, he would usually play his own compositions, a lot of which remained unpublished.  Some of these unpublished manuscripts also could well have been written years earlier.

You will see that it is very difficult to date most Morley's pieces with accuracy.  It is possible sometimes to say when they were published, but not always when they were composed.

I think there may yet be some pieces to be put onto the website, (I know the Really Nice Man is very very busy), and so some of the more recent works are yet to see daylight, but I know that they will.

This is a very difficult area in which to be precise, and this is the best I can do in a relatively short answer, and I hope it is helpful

Anthony Peabody

[Rémi]

Thank you very mch for this complete answer, which is very clear ! The surprising stuff is really this 1894 mentionned in the score of Kentucky Parade; it seems to be totally the date of publication; or not, and this copyright with date is just there for remembering although it was published after (1910?1920?).

Because Morley publications seems to be part of bigger "books/compilations". If the date of 1894 is linked to a this biggest book, it mean a lot of other pièces have been published at same epoque.

This music seems really coming from the 1890', there are not much syncopations, but sometimes there are so it's surely more recent (just a few years). Ok sorry, I m not very clear, but thanks you was : we don't know exactly the year of publications of every score.

[Trapdoor2]

I don't believe putting a copyright date on music was mandatory for the UK (as it was/is in the US). Almost all of the UK published music I own has no date associated with it...and therefore almost impossible to date accurately.

With US publications, it is a bit easier as the date was required for publication. Still, we usually have no idea when a published piece was actually composed.

[Anthony Peabody]

I think Kentucky Parade was published in in 1894 as E&C97, but I am quite ready to revise this opinion either way, if there is anything to support it. Usually there isn't, and so we are stuck with the publisher's number, which might at the very least give some idea of the time it was published.  It is also sometimes the case that the "style" of the music might indicate an earlier composing date than the publishing date, but who is to know that Joe either had (a) pulled something out of his stack of spare music or (b) had a spot of harking back to a former style.  Impossible to tell, and I agree with Trapdoor.

Nevertheless, a lot of his music is very good stuff.  A few turkeys in 240+ pieces, but not many.

Anthony

[Rémi]

OK thanks to you guys ! Very interesting about copyright in England.

But I suppose that if this date was mentioned, it's surely because it was written in 94 and probably published at this time. Man, this "not known" date for this music is intriguing.

I just discovered these pices, but really if there arent't syncopations, it can't be composed before 1897; I rejoice to eplxore more the work of Joe for seeing if there are syncopations in other pieces. I think yes, and maybe it's after hearing some American disk (ossman or other) that he used them too.

(haha :-) that turkeys stuff, I just checked on dictionary to get the meaning)

[Rémi]

I continue the discussion just to say how I appreciate and am happy to have discover this music, which was/is very a missing link in my understanding of the "1895-1915" music that I love so much.

I am surprised to see in score so much dotted note (and semiquaver) in the mélodies. It seems to be exactly a huge part of the banjo music, at least part of Joe Morley incredible work. I really like it, but it's not easy to play !

Have a relax saturday night everyone !

[Rémi]

www.youtube.com/watch?v=lYt4wA_my-g I'm listening to the great Jukebox here, it is wonderful. I really like to hear Morley playing, but it seems so sad that he didn't record much. He's like the Scott Joplin of Banjo.

I also would like to share with you this arrangement of "Freckles" for guitar, I finally found a proper key for making it playable on guitar (C, with the relative Am).

Thank you for this wonderful website, maybe one day I will have a banjo, but nor for immediatly..

Have a good evening.

Rem

[Anthony Peabody]

Remi, Well done!  Freckles sounds different on the guitar, but it certainly plays very well on it, and so do you too.  I regularly play these pieces through the church organ, and they often sound truly magnificent too, so they are very good music, which happen tpo be written for the banjo, but which will transfer to other instruments too.  I like this very much.  I want to hear more.

Rémi said:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=lYt4wA_my-g I'm listening to the great Jukebox here, it is wonderful. I really like to hear Morley playing, but it seems so sad that he didn't record much. He's like the Scott Joplin of Banjo.

I also would like to share with you this arrangement of "Freckles" for guitar, I finally found a proper key for making it playable on guitar (C, with the relative Am).

Thank you for this wonderful website, maybe one day I will have a banjo, but nor for immediatly..

Have a good evening.

Rem

[Rémi]

Thank you very much! Of course I can imagine this music played on organ Church, haha ! This is what I like in this music : it's very "pur", cause not based on a unique version, or on a singer, or on that or that, it's like Bach'music, very theorical, and as you suggest, sounding "ok" on any instrument. Well not here, it's really a banjo thing, and the way it is written is totally linked to this instrument. But I m thinking to ragtime at same time.

Thank you for your encouragements, I will surely arrange more of this wonderful repertory.

[Rémi]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FbbaPfMItz4Hi,

I don't want to bored you with these guitar arrangements, but again I would like to share with you this one. I already did the next arrangement, but I don't know it yet. I'm totally amazed when in front of a Morley score, that's beautiful, detailing, funny, surprising and challenging.

[Anthony Peabody]

You can almost hear the elephants.........

Rémi said:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FbbaPfMItz4Hi,

I don't want to bored you with these guitar arrangements, but again I would like to share with you this one. I already did the next arrangement, but I don't know it yet. I'm totally amazed when in front of a Morley score, that's beautiful, detailing, funny, surprising and challenging.

[Rémi]

Ha that's fine :-) This old rhythm is very fun, I know there are a lot of other pieces (even Joplin's) using it, but that's the first time I played a complet stuff with it. Thanks Steve !