eAEG#B in the time of Stewart

[Michael Neverisky]

Browsing the documents at Hamilton College, I find on page 7 of the Complete American Banjo School, Part First by S.S. Stewart the assertion that the Natural Scale of the Banjo is derived from A tuning.   My impression was that C tuning was in favor by the time of the Stewart Empire... but I suppose not.  Would this mean that banjos made in Philadelphia were expected to be tuned eAEG#B rather than gCGBD?

[Adam]

Hi Michael,

"A" Tuning was the "standard" American tuning in the late 19th C.  Take a look at other 19th C American tutors on the Hamilton site (or elsewhere) and you'll see most - if not all - of them say the same thing.  The Lansing Practical, e.g., recommends the same tuning (pg 5).

Rather than try to pass on my own addled bit of historical knowledge, I'll defer to the wiser folks on this site and point you toward a search on this site for "eAEG#B"

http://classic-banjo.ning.com/main/search/search?q=eAEG%23B

As you can see it's come up in a few discussions over the years!  Joel Hooks might be our strongest advocate of A tuning.  I'll let him (or others) chime in further, if they so want.

One last comment, some banjos from the late 19th C do sound better tuned eAEG#B - I have a Dobson that sounds terrific in that tuning, but absolutely terrible tuned up to gCGBD.  There was another recent post on this topic, here:

http://classic-banjo.ning.com/profiles/blogs/luscombe-banjo-pitch

That said, my Stewart Thoroughbred (ironically) sounds better (to me, of course) tuned up to gCGBD.  Go figure.

Best,

Adam

[Mike Moss]

I believe -- from what I've read in the Journal -- that American banjoists, at the time of Stewart, were already playing in C; there are plenty of references to it, but here is one of them from the Feb-Mar 1888 issue which shows that the A "as notated" corresponds to C in actual pitch on the piano:

[Mike Moss]

Here's another reference from Dec 87 - Jan 88

[Michael Neverisky]

Ah!  So the banjo (in some circles) was considered a transposing
instrument.   The music was not read or written at concert pitch,
much like a Bb clarinet or Eb alto saxophone.   In that case, I
suppose, we would say "A notation" not "A tuning". 

[Trapdoor2]

The whole issue was evidently a hot topic back then...and confusing. I just received a new (new to me) tutor, "The Thorough Banjoist" by Wessenberg, 1891. It is pretty much the usual John Church pub. banjo tutor with "new" tunes arranged by Wessenberg. To this topic, it has a few pieces specifically noted to be tuned gCGBD rather than eAEG#B...but just a few. The book is printed in A notation.

It took the American Guild to sort out the notational standard...but it didn't happen until 1907 (for "C" notation). The Brits didn't require a Guild mandate, they obviously saw the light long before we did!

[Michael Neverisky]

"...they obviously saw the light long before we did!..."

Makes sense when you consider the rotation of the Earth.  8-)

Good info, gents.  Thanks.

[Sylvia]

I will leave the history and technicalities to you guys... however my " two penn'orth " is that I like the sound of the eA..  etc tuning... so I have one banjo tuned  that way but play C notation on it just as though it were tuned ..gC etc.( for fourth string to D read B ). This  of course is fine when playing solo and I can't see any problem if using a guitar accompanist, ( transposing the chords should not be a problem ).   Also for those who have started to use keyboard accompaniment , no prob.  keyboards can be transposed at the flick of a button as can electric pianos, also any PC  backing software.   Playing in a group? just use the Banjo tuned to gC etc. 

When I have enough time to spare I will  learn to read A notation. 

[Michael Neverisky]

"... I like the sound of the eA.. etc tuning..."

Sylvia, you have the full permission of F. B. Converse to tune your banjo as
you prefer.

Converse wrote: "...with the banjo, the question of pitch is arbitrary, and
may be modified by circumstances, as, for instance, when playing with
other instruments; or again, when accompanying the voice"   Found on
page 4 of the Analytical Banjo Method under the heading "Read Attentively"! 

 

[Sylvia]

Hi Michael,  sorry, was a bit lazy not writing the tuning out in full.    eAEG#B  .  Glad I've got F.B. Converse's permission. That  makes me feel a lot better . Don't think I will bother to try any of the many other tunings though.

[Shawn McSweeny]

Hi Michael:

Picking up on Trapdoor's comments, US banjo historian Eli Kaufman believes the American Guild's 1907 decision to embrace C notation ironically contributed to the 5 string banjo's rather rapid loss of popularity in the US. The leading soloists and old timers all read A notation and many didn't want to learn to read C. So the notation change,  along with changes in musical taste, led to the five string's US demise only a decade later, around the end of WWI.

By contrast, in the UK, where C notation was well established, and the dance craze took longer to catch on, finger style five string remained relatively popular until about the beginning of WWII.