H C Dobson's visit to England.

[Jake Glanville]

Is there anyone among your exaulted membership who can remind me when Henry Clay Dodson visited England?  I would be most greatful for their input.  I believe it was in 1868.  Many thanks in advance to anyone taking the trouble to reply to this.

BJ.

[Jake Glanville]

That should be 'Dobson' of course. Apologies for the typo.
BJ.

[Joel Hooks]

You will want to reach out to Kyle VanMeter.  I believe he as done some work on this subject.  Also check out the early Stewart Journals, while filled with sarcasm and insults (deservingly so as the Dobsons were a family of con artists) there is some info about how Henry bounced checks and skipped to England to avoid creditors.  I also believe he skipped out on his wife and came back married to a younger student. 

The story of the Dobson family is pretty depressing, as is the norm for scam artists, and ends in some tragedy involving losing their mansion (paid for by Henry's slum lord activities in real estate) with a fire.  There was also a murder suicide attempt by George's wife after their son was arrested for stealing silk from his employer. 

[Jake Glanville]

Thank you Joel.  You've been very helpful as usual and I shall do my best to track down Kyle Van Meter.  Sounds like some very interesting stuff on Henry Dobson.

All the Best,

Jake,

Joel Hooks said:

You will want to reach out to Kyle VanMeter.  I believe he as done some work on this subject.  Also check out the early Stewart Journals, while filled with sarcasm and insults (deservingly so as the Dobsons were a family of con artists) there is some info about how Henry bounced checks and skipped to England to avoid creditors.  I also believe he skipped out on his wife and came back married to a younger student. 

The story of the Dobson family is pretty depressing, as is the norm for scam artists, and ends in some tragedy involving losing their mansion (paid for by Henry's slum lord activities in real estate) with a fire.  There was also a murder suicide attempt by George's wife after their son was arrested for stealing silk from his employer. 

[Kyle VanMeter]

Jake, 

Thanks for the email! I figured I should go ahead and join the Classic Banjo forum, I am not as active on the online banjo community as I would like to be!

Here is what I have gathered from my research, the majority of which comes from New York and London newspaper archives. Actual financial documentation and certified legal documents are hard to come by, so there is always a possibility that some of the information is skewed due to reporter biases or mis-reported information in the newspapers. Not too much different than news outlets nowadays! 

Around June of 1867, Charles (Chas.) Dobson made an approximate 4-7 month trip to England, or possibly two trips, with focus on solo performances and giving lessons. His first show on that side of the pond in that year was at the Cooper Institute in June of 1867. Charles continued to show up in English newspapers through the rest of the year promoting his local solo performances. By early 1868, Chas. starts appearing in New York area newspapers again, which would indicate he ended his trip to England and returned to the US.

At some point after HC Dobson’s 1867 patent was granted in July, Henry joined his brother in England to continue promotion of banjo music and to give lessons. There was an advertisement in the Ross Gazette from Herefordshire on August 1, 1867 stating that the two Dobson brothers opened a banjo studio on the West End selling imported banjos and giving music lessons. The brothers were also mentioned in a few ads through the remainder of 1867 that they held concerts, but most of the ads in that timeframe mentioned only solo performing acts by Chas. Dobson.

By February of 1868, all news ads mentioning the Dobson banjo studio and solo performances by Chas and Henry ceased, making me believe they assigned dealers to continue banjo sales in England and closed their studio.

I also have not quite hammered out the exact location of their studio and the timing of the exit, but I believe that the Dobson Brother’s actually owned that studio mentioned in the 1867 articles, and there was mention of them selling a property for 500 pounds in the same timeframe. I just made note of the transaction in my studies, and that they did own a property in England that was sold in the late 1860’s. I plan to eventually dive deeper into making a timeline of the properties that the Dobson’s owned or leased, but have not found the time yet to further explore and detail that part of their business and personal endeavors.

There is no mention I recall of Temlett directly meeting with either of the Dobson brothers. But it would surprise me if he did not at least attend a few of their solo performances. Many mentions of banjos in 1867 English newspaper publications also mention the Dobson brothers, so it would have been unlikely that a banjo enthusiast such as Temlett did not at least pay a visit to the self proclaimed “Champion Banjoist of the World”. That, coupled with the numerous similarities between the ‘67 Dobson patent and the ‘69 Temlett design would lead one to speculate that at least Temlett studied the ‘62 Teed patent and the ‘67 Dobson patent, as the English market would have been saturated with Dobson’s mass imported banjos after July of 1867.

I’m sorry if that does not give you anything terribly “definitive” for your research! But at a least, we can pinpoint that Chas. Dobson was actively promoting and selling banjos in England in the mid to late 1867 timeframe with the support of his brother Henry.

-Kyle VanMeter

[Jake Glanville]

Thank you so much Kyle, for taking the time and trouble to reply with such a mountain of useful info. 

I am indebted to your kindness and extremely grateful to your efforts.  I was always told that one of the Dobsons had met William Temlett Snr., and from what you've told me this doesn't seem far-fetched at all.  You have been incredibly helpful.
Dobson certainly sold his banjos in England.  Not so long ago one was for sale on eBay along with some sewing equipment, starting price about £30 (about $50 US)!! 

Equally certainly they were also copied.  Have you seen a James William Ethrington banjo?  I've seen one so close to Dobson I can hardly tell the difference.  I have a banjo by an unknown maker which has 'Dobson Influence' written all over it, figuratively speaking.

Anyway, it's great that there are people like you around, and if ever I finish this crazy book (I may not, being incredibly ancient) I will of course give you full acknowledgement.  By the way, I'm very impressed with your banjo-playing.  Not simply skilful, but thoughtful and sensitive as well.  That's what makes a top grade banjoist in my not so humble view!

Many thanks once again.

Best wishes,

BJ.
Kyle VanMeter said :

Jake, 

Thanks for the email! I figured I should go ahead and join the Classic Banjo forum, I am not as active on the online banjo community as I would like to be!

Here is what I have gathered from my research, the majority of which comes from New York and London newspaper archives. Actual financial documentation and certified legal documents are hard to come by, so there is always a possibility that some of the information is skewed due to reporter biases or mis-reported information in the newspapers. Not too much different than news outlets nowadays! 

Around June of 1867, Charles (Chas.) Dobson made an approximate 4-7 month trip to England, or possibly two trips, with focus on solo performances and giving lessons. His first show on that side of the pond in that year was at the Cooper Institute in June of 1867. Charles continued to show up in English newspapers through the rest of the year promoting his local solo performances. By early 1868, Chas. starts appearing in New York area newspapers again, which would indicate he ended his trip to England and returned to the US.

At some point after HC Dobson’s 1867 patent was granted in July, Henry joined his brother in England to continue promotion of banjo music and to give lessons. There was an advertisement in the Ross Gazette from Herefordshire on August 1, 1867 stating that the two Dobson brothers opened a banjo studio on the West End selling imported banjos and giving music lessons. The brothers were also mentioned in a few ads through the remainder of 1867 that they held concerts, but most of the ads in that timeframe mentioned only solo performing acts by Chas. Dobson.

By February of 1868, all news ads mentioning the Dobson banjo studio and solo performances by Chas and Henry ceased, making me believe they assigned dealers to continue banjo sales in England and closed their studio.

I also have not quite hammered out the exact location of their studio and the timing of the exit, but I believe that the Dobson Brother’s actually owned that studio mentioned in the 1867 articles, and there was mention of them selling a property for 500 pounds in the same timeframe. I just made note of the transaction in my studies, and that they did own a property in England that was sold in the late 1860’s. I plan to eventually dive deeper into making a timeline of the properties that the Dobson’s owned or leased, but have not found the time yet to further explore and detail that part of their business and personal endeavors.

There is no mention I recall of Temlett directly meeting with either of the Dobson brothers. But it would surprise me if he did not at least attend a few of their solo performances. Many mentions of banjos in 1867 English newspaper publications also mention the Dobson brothers, so it would have been unlikely that a banjo enthusiast such as Temlett did not at least pay a visit to the self proclaimed “Champion Banjoist of the World”. That, coupled with the numerous similarities between the ‘67 Dobson patent and the ‘69 Temlett design would lead one to speculate that at least Temlett studied the ‘62 Teed patent and the ‘67 Dobson patent, as the English market would have been saturated with Dobson’s mass imported banjos after July of 1867.

I’m sorry if that does not give you anything terribly “definitive” for your research! But at a least, we can pinpoint that Chas. Dobson was actively promoting and selling banjos in England in the mid to late 1867 timeframe with the support of his brother Henry.

-Kyle VanMeter