Comment by Adam on August 22, 2010 at 18:53

Great, Ian! Love the compare and contrast of your style and Rob's.

Thanks very much for posting this!

Comment by Joel Hooks on August 22, 2010 at 19:03

I like the advice of rubbing the fingers against the strings, I tried it.

Lansing had a nice bit of advice on "banjo tone."

"Great care should be taken with regard to producing a proper "Banjo tone." Very few young people get a good tone for the reason that they pick too far up on the fingers ; the learner should touch the strings not more than one eighth of an inch from the nail. Persistence in this will cause a callous to develop which will act on the Banjo string as successfully as rosin does on a Violin bow when applied to the strings."

Now, I've watched the videos of Tarrant Bailey jr. many times, so I know that you have your arm rest in the wrong place ; ).

Comment by Adam on August 22, 2010 at 19:16

Ian, quick question, if you don't mind: Are you being as "strong" with your left hand as you are with your right?

Comment by thereallyniceman on August 22, 2010 at 19:25

Hi Deuces,
I had not seen that Lansing quote. Very interesting indeed! It looks like I am doing something correctly :-)

I have developed very hard "segs" or calluses on my fingers and with the "rubbing the strings" trick they become more pronounced and picking becomes much brighter and cleaner (for me that is !)

These segs are on thumb, first and second fingers, but recently I have been practising the Fred Van Eps version of Maple Leaf Rag and that uses the third finger of the right hand on the first string in four note chords and boy oh boy do I miss not having segs on the third fingertip! My third fingers slips and slides all over the place.


As as for Tarrant Bailey's armrest... I think I must have missed that lesson :0-)

Comment by thereallyniceman on August 22, 2010 at 19:42

Hi Adam,
Strong with my left?...hmmm tricky one that!

With lots of practice my fingertips have developed hard pads, particularly so as the thicker nylons strings do not have much "give", but I would say that the smoother the better for the left hand. One suggestion I would make for anyone beginning is to keep your fingers as close to the fingerboard as possible when lifting off a note so that you are ready to easily and quickly and with minimum movement place it back down on the next note. If you get into the habit of lifting your fingers high in the air when changing from chord to chord you will NEVER build up speed. I found one of the best exercises, for me, was doing scales. When you first start, fingers are flying all over the place but eventually, if you force yourself to keep those fingers really close to the strings as you move to the next note you will soon automatically play economically with minimum finger lifts.

Watch some of Eric Stefanelli's playing (Marc D has posted many) and you will see how economically he plays, you can't even see light under his fingers.!.. compare with others on Youtube and you will see what I mean.

I try my best not to lift too much, but my darned pinky has a mind of its own at times and waves about uncontrollably :-)

Regarding "Strong". The only thing I do that I consider strong with my left hand is "snapping off'"
notes, which is quite hard with thicker nylons.

Keep practising :-)

Comment by thereallyniceman on August 22, 2010 at 19:53

Hey Rob,
You big softie. Stand up straight and take a hundred lines :-)

I have said before.. I would cut off my right arm to be able to play like you ...but, hey wait a minute???

Your sound is "great" so, take it from me, take NO notice if people who have nothing better than to critcise send you daft emails. Your playing smooth, clear accurate and melodic.... mine sounds like bin lids being banged together... so perhaps I should be the one to change :-)


My suggestion would be, get a scotch, or two. Get the banjo and play it until your head clears.. If that doesn't work...repeat the above :-)

Comment by Sylvia on August 22, 2010 at 21:57

Hi Ian , Thank you for your video showing the different style of playing, I won't tell your wife about the T shirt :-) ......I know I can find a use for both styles, yours and Robs, hopefully in the not too distant future if I can practice enough and play well enough for what I want to do.

I hope Rob and yourself and the other members of Classic will keep up with the videos and tips. I'm really afraid to admit that I don't know a lot about any of the masters of the banjo as yet and at the moment don't have a lot of time to read up about them, reading will take time away from practicing, but I am learning by listening to you all.

And Rob, those " daft" emails, bin 'em and forget about them If it hadn't been for yourself , this 3rd attempt of mine to play the Banjo would have ended as the other two did, being shelved. And I was getting very despondant until you posted the Beginners Forum the other day.

Good night and Best Wishes to All,

Sylvia.

Comment by Trapdoor2 on August 22, 2010 at 22:06

Like Adam, I love the contrasting style...and appreciate greatly what Ian and Rob have here provided for us.

I would like to comment on Ian's right hand and his 'attack' (I've been thinking about this since he posted his first video as I noticed it right off). Almost every molecule of Ian's right hand is devoted to producing a strong, forceful attack. It is a very economical position, his fingertips move in the smallest circles, no waving about, very little movement at the joints. This uses the larger muscles in the arm to strike the strings, not the smaller ones in the hand...thus he is able to impart the maximum amount of force and use the least amount of energy to do it. This R/H style is used by many of the greatest Bluegrass players, including Earl Scruggs (amen).

So, we have a very strong R/H. Look where he is picking...right up next to the bridge! This is tonally where the loudest and most brash picking is accomplished. This position produces a note that both attacks and decays very quickly (read: staccato) and produces a very characteristic "banjo" tone. It is also where the strings resist the fingers the hardest...producing great lumps of callus, which, in turn allow Ian's fingers to resist turning into bloody pulp. ;-)

This "loud and proud" system of playing is simply a response to playing in noisy and unamplified music halls (and I dare say, pubs and bars). The old-school players needed all the volume they could get...and they sacrificed the rest of the banjo's available tonalities to get it. This technique is still rampant among banjoists, as bluegrass players continue to vie with rock guitarists for bragging rights on the "who can make more people deaf" front. ;-)

As he says, Ian is representing a continuous line of banjo instruction that started in the 1880's, if not before. It is a very cool thing indeed. However, as interesting as I find it, I do not wish to emulate it...you'll find me playing out at the other end of the head, near the neck rather than near the bridge. My ears and my fingers like that area better. I do use a very similar position to Ian's, excepting that I strike the strings with the very end of my fingers and pull thru with my fingernails. My nails are usually kept short, only about 1/16" is allowed beyond the quick. The result has been described as a "composite" attack. You may read an article (written before I was born) about this over on David Wade's Zither-Banjo website here: http://www.zither-banjo.org/pages/nails2.htm If you read the whole article, you'll find that players back then also compared/contrasted the different styles...and likely wrote nasty emails (oh...um, "letters", I think those things were called) to one another as well.

So...what to make of it all? It took me years of practice and years of playing to find out how I really liked to play the banjo. I experimented with all sorts of playing styles and all sorts of tunes...and now how I play is "how I play", not Ian, not Rob, not Earl (amen)...just me having learned a lot from all of them (and still doing so).

Oh heck, I forgot to talk about dynamics...and how they're produced by both Ian and Rob. Please go back and watch some videos of both. Concentrate on the dynamic (volume) levels more than just watching the fingers twiddle. Done? Ok.

Ian produces changes in dynamics primarily by altering the strength of his attack. Harder=louder. He rarely moves his R/H along the strings, sticking that pinky hard into the vellum right next to the bridge. Compare this with Rob's method which is a composite of both changes in strength and changes in position. His hand moves between bridge and neck (closer to bridge = louder, sharper. Closer to neck, softer, silkier) and at the same time, he changes the strength of picking.

The two players have two entirely different methods of getting dynamic changes into their tunes. The result is two completely different sounds, both of which are pleasing in different ways. I find

Comment by Trapdoor2 on August 22, 2010 at 22:08

Wow, do I win a prize for blowing the word count here? ;-)

Comment by Joel Hooks on August 23, 2010 at 0:44

Hate mail! You mean there are other mad banjoists hiding out there that are not contributors to this site?

I'd post 'em as a badge of honor, that means that you are getting to people, leaving your mark. Be proud Rob- your playing and your contributions. I for one don't want to lose ya.

You win this round Marc... but not next time (shakes fist)!

Yes, the arm rest...

http://www.britishpathe.com/record.php?id=36418

http://www.britishpathe.com/record.php?id=37967

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