Comment by Pertti Vuori on May 3, 2014 at 8:52

Thank You Trapdoor2,

You and Hal have done a great job for mankind (banjokind???). There are about 40 banjo tutors in Hamilton College Library - you have about 50, and you have pdf-, tef- and midi-files.

"Reckless Rufus" is from Agnew, "Danse Eccentrique" is from Turner's Dance Album #8, "Little Daisy Mazurka" is from Ellis' Banjo Album No. 6, "Kujawiak" is based on an arrangement from Jacobs Banjo Collection Vol. 10 - four of my nine videos are from books downloaded from Classicbanjo.com.

I have played "Banjoisticus" - a simplified version from "Banjo for Dummies". (There's also another great tune in "Dummies" - without intro and less repeats - "Colorado Buck Dance". Bill Evans doesn't play them too fast.)

Somebody should play "Banjoisticus" - your version - and make a video.

People play "Banjoland", "Banjo Oddity", "Calliope Rag", "Fun On The Wabash", "Rose Leaves Gavotte", "Red Rover March" etc. but I don't know where they have downloaded them - midi- and/or tef- and/or pdf-files can be downloaded from Classicbanjo.com.

And there's "Méthode Théorique et Pratique pour Banjo ou Zither-Banjo à cinq cordes de Salvator Leonardi" for the French.

Comment by Jody Stecher on May 3, 2014 at 17:00

PV wrote: " People play "Banjoland", "Banjo Oddity", "Calliope Rag", "Fun On The Wabash", "Rose Leaves Gavotte", "Red Rover March" etc. but I don't know where they have downloaded them -"

JS responds: some learn from paper sheet music and from recordings and from other banjo players.  No downloading involved. But if you want to download, have a look at the extensive library on this site. They are marked as Easy, Intermediate, and Advanced. The Easy ones are suitable for beginners. Click on the library link then click on "other options" and then click on "show all?"  and all the titles in the library will appear.

Comment by thereallyniceman on May 3, 2014 at 17:15

Thank you Jody for detailing how to list all the files in the MUSIC LIBRARY.

To date there are 841 Classic Banjo titles in the database, all for free download and many with audio player and video performances of the tune !!!

Comment by Pertti Vuori on May 3, 2014 at 20:21

JS forgot to mention that you can also search by the Composer or by a word. If I write e.g. "blues", I get Grimshaw's "Banjo Blues", Cooke's "Blame It On The Blues" (which has nothing to do with blues), Caselli's "Languid Blues" (which has nothing to do with blues) etc.

* * *

I also know that they are categorized "Easy", "Intermediate", and "Advanced".

Categorizing tunes should be objective, but I think it is subjective.

Cammeyer's "A Christmas Carol" is marked "Advanced". Why? I could play it a little faster than the midi-file I downloaded. I was going to do a Christmas Video, but I didn't like that tune.

"Camilla - Chilian Dance" (which is also in Walter Jacob's Banjo Collection #3) is marked "Easy". Why? Tempo marking is "Allegretto Moderato", it is "full" of 1/16th notes - that is not for a "category b) beginners" - see below.

Music Library is full of ragtime. I'm not an ex-Pertti in ragtime, but I think that 99% of them are fast, then there's "The Entertainer", which may be a medium tempo rag. But is there anything for "category b) beginners"??? I don't think so.

You have played so long that you have forgotten how long it lasts to get fast - and some people never get fast. "classic-banjo.ning.com" should be renamed "ragtime-banjo-for-intermediate-to-advanced-players.ning.com".

* * *

I think that beginners can be placed in two categories:
a) people who play an instrument or have played an instrument recently
b) people who have never played an instrument or haven't played an instrument for a long time

I belong group b).

* * *

If JS had read my previous comment ("In December 2012 I downloaded over 70 tutor books"), he'd know that I have enough material for the rest of my life. The problem is to to find interesting tunes for a "category b) beginner".

Comment by Jody Stecher on May 4, 2014 at 6:29

Pertti, I did read your previous comment about the 70 tutor books and I did not forget to mention the various ways to search the library. Because you mentioned difficulty in finding easy pieces to play I was trying to be helpful to you and to other self-described beginners by pointing out the way to use the site Library that indicates ease of playing. If you try a search for the keyword "easy" ,   nothing comes up. The only way to search for "easy" pieces in the library is the way I described. Searching for a word (like "blues") may or may not turn up pieces in the Easy category but it is not the way to do a comprehensive search. 

Of course the categorization is subjective because not all musicians find the same things difficult or easy.  There is also an ongoing process of revision of categorization. Several people have contributed opinions as to degree of difficulty. At the request of the Site Moderator I gave my opinion about ease of playing on about 2/3 of the library or maybe less at this point because the library has grown quite a bit in the last year, during which I have been inactive in this endeavor.  Mistakes were made, and opinions differed. However one thing is constant:  "Easy" is a relative term. Classic Banjo as a genre is difficult music to play, especially at first.

I don't know why A Christmas Carol is categorized as Advanced. This was probably an error. I don't remember ever seeing it but I or someone else may have thought "Well, everything Cammeyer composed is hard to play and I've run out of time for the next three months and cannot even spare 3 minutes to read through this piece,  so we'll start with an Advanced attribution and see if someone has a different idea." Something like that.  That's my best guess. I don't think it is a hard piece to play. A mistake was probably made. It happens. 

Camilla is categorized as Easy because    within the parameters of Classic Banjo    it is easy to play. Most banjo students  do not consider 16th notes to be a difficult thing. That is a matter for the right hand. One holds down a chord with the left hand and plays lots of sixteenth notes until the right hand becomes fluid. One plays scales as well. Practice makes perfect or anyway Practice Makes Not Too Bad At All.  What is more difficult for most people is rapid changes in the left hand from one part of the fingerboard to another or from one position to another on the same three frets. As often as not, the fingers of the left hand will collide with each other when doing that.  Mine still do and I have been playing banjo for 56 years, since the age of 12. However I have not forgotten how long it takes to get fast nor what it is like to be a beginner. I teach lots of beginners. When I don't understand a perceived obstacle I turn my instrument upside down and try to play left-handed, something at which I am so inept that I see the problem immediately.

Ragtime is generally not fast music. Scott Joplin is quoted and misquoted frequently. In both cases his meaning is clear : ragtime should not be played fast. 

 

Comment by thereallyniceman on May 4, 2014 at 7:12

Hi Pertti,

Your help categorising the music scores would be greatly appreciated both by me and the other website members. You obviously have a talent for spotting errors, so if you would like to work through the entire list making comments and then email them to me I will check the offending items.

Regarding Ragtime, it is good to see that you notice the increasing number of ragtime pieces. This is in great part due to the splendid efforts of Steve Harrison (with minimal assistance from me). Ragtime was extremely popular in the Classic Banjo heydays, ie the first two/ three decades of 20th Century so we like to have it feature prominently. I am very pleased about our scores of arrangements as played by Fred Van Eps, a master of the style, many of these were kindly donated by our friend Rainier Lanselle.

I think that there may have been some confusion over your term "Banjo Tutors" from Hal's site, many there are "Banjo Albums", containing mixed selections of tunes. I decided it would be better to utilise our MUSIC LIBRARY for individual tunes, by composer, which include many of the tunes found in those "Albums".

The Banjo "Instruction Tutors" you mention on the Hamilton site are very interesting, but not "Classic Style". Popular Classic Style pieces were published in "English Tuning" ie. g C/D G B D. On the Hamilton site 90+% of the books are in American "A" tuning  and often nowadays described as "early" Classic style, and only played by a limited number of players. We have some "early" scores in the MUSIC LIBRARY, but mainly "C" tuned pieces.

Keep hunting as I am sure that you will find some of our scores will meet your exacting standards.

Comment by Pertti Vuori on May 4, 2014 at 14:02

I mentioned "blues" as an example of how to search for a word in the name of a tune - that's why I wrote the three tune names.

16th notes may or may not be difficult - it depends on the tempo of the tune.

"Easy" is a relative term - so is "fast music".

* * *

Classic Banjo is playing style, it's got nothing to do with tuning or music:

Quote from wtalley.tripod.com/about.htm: "Classic Banjo" refers to the method of playing the banjo, not the type of music played on the banjo.

Quote from Joel Hooks' website - Playing Styles: Guitar Style is similar to modern Classical Guitar. This also carries the title Classic Banjo.

See: Bill Evans: Banjo for Dummies.

See: "Minstrel and Classic Banjo: American and English Connections" (University of Illinois Press)

See: Sarah Meredith: "With a Banjo On Her Knee: Gender, Race, Class, and the American Classical Banjo Tradition, 1880-1915" (Florida State University)

Comment by thereallyniceman on May 4, 2014 at 14:09

Great information,

Odd that 99% of published Classic Banjo music is in C tuning. It must be just a coincidence.

Are you going to help with the MUSIC LIBRARY classifications then?

Comment by Pertti Vuori on May 5, 2014 at 9:04

"Great" answer.

Ask somebody who shares your views about Classic Banjo.

Comment by Mike Moss on May 5, 2014 at 9:26

No offense, Pertti, but have you ever considered that a bit of humility is a desirable quality when learning a musical style with a long tradition behind it? Sperging over dictionary definitions is one thing, but actually taking in a style, with all the baggage of experience, recordings, know-how, etc., is quite another. You seem to be taking what you "want" to hear whilst deliberately ignoring the immense body of evidence that contradicts your "views". Your use of that sentence from Joel Hook's website, for instance, shows just how little you know Joel, who is the first to debunk the "classical" myth. Ditto for the others. You merely engage in cherry picking in your sources to select only those snippets that suit you, context be damned. But Classic Banjo does not exist in a vacuum. If anything, the "limitations" imposed by tradition are what enriches Classic Banjo in the first place -- it is what gives it a character of its own and prevents it from becoming a generic, faceless style of banjo playing.

You seem to be unfazed by the fact that most (?) Classic Banjo music seems not to be to your liking, that you find it too difficult, too fast, etc. Have you ever paused to consider that Classic Banjo might just not be what you're looking for from the instrument? This is an honest question, by the way. Rather than getting confrontational with people in the Classic Banjo community over your personal views of what the style "should" be like, you should consider whether or not Classic Banjo is what you think it is.

Plenty of people come to Classic Banjo and experience tremendous cognitive dissonance when they actually meet the "real thing" compared to what they had read or heard about it. Some come expecting to find classical music, or a style similar to classical guitar, only to find that the sheet music and recordings from the period correspond to neither. This is not the kind of information you will find in a book (and there are very few good modern sources on Classic Banjo) -- this stems from direct experience of playing classic banjo music, listening to classic banjo recordings, and learning from people knowledgeable about the style or who have inherited a part of this tradition directly (as is the case with Ian aka Thereallyniceman). Only once you realise that it is not the style that must change, but you who must change, will you come to terms with it.

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