Comment by Tim Twiss on March 28, 2017 at 10:43

As a lurker and fan of the music on this site, I post this to gain perspective. This is like "pre-classic" material....correct.? I had this instrument made to be in E/A tuning and try to interpret some of the late Converse stuff. Enlighten me....was material of this time actually played higher than A/E tuning? Also, has anyone else played this tune?

Comment by Trapdoor2 on March 28, 2017 at 13:54

By this time (1886), I believe the tuning had raised itself to C...though Americans were still notating in A.

Very generally, the Classic style period is bounded (on the 'early' side) by Converse's early "guitar style" stuff.  I think that one could argue that any of the 'showpiece' tunes which are better suited to fingerstyle could be considered 'Classic' style. For instance, I would opine something like "Railroad Polka" is more "Classic" than "Stroke". Certainly not a black/white demarcation between the two.

Comment by Paul Draper on March 28, 2017 at 14:13

The sheet music for this piece, published in 1883, is noted in A, but at the top of the sheet Converse indicates tuning the banjo in C: https://www.loc.gov/resource/sm1883.03556.0/?sp=6

Comment by thereallyniceman on March 28, 2017 at 14:29

Hmmmm, 

Very curious!

Comment by Trapdoor2 on March 28, 2017 at 14:59

Yah, it was pretty common even fairly early on. Joel has a bunch of great documentation on this 'transposing' issue. It confused the heck outta me for years.

I don't believe there was a 'origin event'. I cannot recall ever seeing any Brit-published sheet music in A notation (and Brit publishers didn't see it necessary to put a copyright date on anything, so it is very hard to date sheet music).

The earliest American tutor (Briggs) was published in "G" notation (lowest bass note "G"). This was very convenient for people who were trained to read the treble clef for the Violin. However, virtually everything else from then (~1860) to 1907 (and well after) was published in "A" (lowest bass note "A").

I have no idea what prompted that move to "A" notation (from "G"). It never made sense to me to move away from the range of the violin. I mean, if you're going to tune it differently anyway...why change from an already accepted standard?

Certainly, once the tuning had been elevated to use C as the lowest bass note, moving the notation to use middle C made perfect sense (to me). God forbid, it could have easily been directly notated in the Alto clef like a Viola. Think of that! =8^0

Hmm. Won't let me add an attachment here. I'll find a spot for a copy from the tutor.

Comment by Trapdoor2 on March 28, 2017 at 15:07

Comment by Trapdoor2 on March 28, 2017 at 15:10

And, of course, if there is any interest I will happily provide this in C notation (and TAB).

Comment by Jody Stecher on March 28, 2017 at 15:39

A question for Marc: what do you mean about "out of the range of the violin"?  A step up in banjo tuning and/or notation would be no obstacle for a violin to play.  One step higher is well within violin range. So someone used to reading treble clef music could read music whose lowest note is A as easily as music whose lowest note is G. My guess is you have a good point but I'm not sure what it is. 

And a comment for no one in particular: It is probably worth mentioning that as banjo notation "rose" from G to A to C —in conjunction with the rise in tuning — banjo construction also changed. The the length of the string from nut to bridge got progressively shorter. Whether this was a response to the heightened tuning or whether the tuning was a response to the shorter vibrating string length is something I don't know. I bet Joel knows....

Comment by Paul Draper on March 28, 2017 at 15:53

Marc - I'd be interested in the TAB for Harriman's (although I'm not quite sure I have enough frets on my banjo to be able to play it ha ha!)

Comment by Trapdoor2 on March 28, 2017 at 16:02

My bad. I didn't really mean "range", I was speaking to the lowest note (which is typical 'nomenclature' for our banjo notation). For people trained to read for the violin, the lowest note is typically the "G" below middle C. This was the same "lowest note" used for the Briggs book...and the notation would have been immediately familiar to any violinist. Sure, jumping it up to A would have been no obstacle, I was just thinking about the thought process for publishing something never before seen (banjo notation). It made sense to use "G" to me...but the "A" was so short lived as the bass note...why not do like the Brits and use "C"?

I mean, the plates were engraved...not typeset. The engraver doesn't care if it has more or less looney notation (well, perhaps he did...but he was likely paid by the plate, not by the density). I know that if I were engraving it, I'd charge less for Cmaj...

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