Bare finger experiment

[Trapdoor2]

Well, I decided today to do a little experiment. I was cutting my nails and simply cut my usual picking nails back to the quick. I generally leave about 1/16” to 3/32” nail exposed on both index and middle finger (a bit more on the thumb, maybe 1/8”) and rarely cut those, rather filing them back occasionally.

I dunno why, maybe it is the Ball videos, maybe Rob’s exploration of the ZB or Ian’s tutorial on getting those finger-grooves set in. Maybe I’m still getting over last Sunday’s head-cold or perhaps it is sunspot activity. In any case, it’ll be flesh only for the next week or so.

Wish me luck, I’m going to need it. Thankfully, if I cannot make it work, I have Joel’s thimbles to save the day (or I could simply put on my old BG picks…or drag out a Tenor).

BTW, I have acquired a Gold Tone OT-6 banjo (it is a monster…14” pot with a special 6-string neck rigged as 5+chanterelle). I cannot seem to find any use for the extra bass string whilst fingerpicking (tuned gGDGBD at the moment) but it is a hoot playing clawhammer. However, I intend to convert it to a 5-string Cello-Banjo ASAP.

[Trapdoor2]

CE "MacKillop" strings...well DUH! (forehead slap). I should have bought a set when I ordered the Grimshaw tutor (which came in Saturday...very quickly from all that way).

Ah well...

BTW, I find that I'm already mostly there re: "MacKillop technique". I suspect I simply need to concentrate a good bit on strict technique. Since I learned to play with quite a closed fist (Scruggs style, with picks, etc.), my natural fingertip movement is a small circle where impact with the string occurs in the downward part of the cycle, pushing down into the string, across a bit and then release on the upswing. It isn't exactly the same as your video but quite close. I have to concentrate on not letting the string roll off of my fingertips (thud).

[thereallyniceman]

Thanks Rob, Your video tutorial was very interesting, particularly where you show the fingertip grooves. I had not seen this video before I posted my "extra" to your Grimshaw Tutorial so seeing that the grooves in your fingertips are in a completely different place and angle to the ones in my fingertips . This may give an indication to the banjo sound differences we get. My groove is approx 3mm from and parallel to the edge of the fingernails, so the callus is formed and "reinforced" by the nail. It projects very slightly beyond the nail so I am picking with flesh only, but pretty tough flesh! BUT your banjo RH position may well be completely different to that shown in the guitar tutorial...where do your fingertip grooves form?

I pick the stings upwards with index and second finger and strike downwards with the thumb. If you watch William J Ball listen to the volume he gets from the bass string with very little thumb movement. I can't replicate this as I think I tend to push the bass string sideways too far and then down... my bad technique.

1m. 13sec into Mr Punch http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xieWsBxcqWc

Marc, Only joshing! It is good to experiment. I find single string triplets are a struggle too and try to get triplets another way if possible using two or more strings.

The good thing about this group is that there are always good suggestions and other things to try. The big problem I have is that there are not enough hours in the day to perfect them all... and I am running out of time :-)

Ian

[thereallyniceman]

Well really, you are a girly Tenor Banjo player now :-)
"
The question about how long my fingertip "grooves" last.. I have put on my good "seeing" spectacles and I actually have a groove in the callus all the time... so I guess there is no hope of me ever being mellifluous, what ever that means :-)

[thereallyniceman]

Yep, beyond hope for me :-)

... and you too with that hair :-)

[Trapdoor2]

Tenor players in the US have been brainwashed to think the TB is a rhythm instrument which must be played chord-melody style, as loud as possible and smell of pizza and beer. They wear funny hats (straw boaters) striped clothes and tell themselves that they play “ragtime” which was, of course, invented on a sternwheeler riverboat somewhere between Memphis and New Orleans. They will often admit the existence of some wonky Irish guys out there having co-opted the tenor a few years back…but because they also play as loud and as fast as possible, they are considered “kissin’ cousins”. ;-)

My LH fingers have decent calluses (not BG-Guitar thick) but my RH fingers are just short of “girlie soft”. If I choose to continue with this experiment, I suspect I will develop calluses much like Ian’s…I simply do not play as softly as you do, Rob…my PP is probably equivalent to your MF. I can probably better emulate Ian’s constant Fz but in doing so I am afraid of running out of strings and bridges. Last time I tried, my bridge blew off the banjo and shot under a bookcase…even the cats can’t reach it. ;-)

My finger grooves tend to angle a bit (in relation to the nail), I’ll post a video (eventually) that shows ‘em. I tried allowing my hand to collapse a bit towards the pinky-side last night and that does help with certain segments. I am still requiring too much RH focus at this point to play much coherent music. I’ve been playing “Berkeley March” overandoverandoverandover to the point where my wife stuck her head out last night and asked if I was trying to develop a new and uniquely annoying form of OCD…so I had to switch over and play “Whistling Rufus” for a while. :-/

I am striving for some level of mellifluosity...but I do enjoy a bit of rat-a-tat-tat too.

[thereallyniceman]

"Next time I get it cut I'll send you some to glue on."

......and at no charge?, generous to a fault!


ps. What's the difference between a Scotsman and a coconut?

..You can get a drink out of a coconut.

[Trapdoor2]

Spot on. They all sound the same...which is partly why I moved into the light of "Classic Banjo". Very few of us have much more than a slim window of dynamic range and even less insight into the range of tonalities available (beyond the broad comic ones). These ranges are expected/required of every other instrument but for some reason they are absent from the expected banjo performance. One doesn't see many "banjo recording" reviews which use adjectives like "lyrical" or "euphonious" or even "mellowhoozius". Of course the genre is often self limiting...performances being usually rated on the "yee-ha" scale...

I don' know 'bout y'all, but I'm havin' fun spearimentin'. Iffin ah kin git mah finners ta perduce a clean "p" on a reg'lr basis, ah'll be grinnin' laik a possum! ;-)

[thereallyniceman]

I posted a picture of my fingertips showing that the grooves in the calluses are there all the time! They wear away after a couple of weeks if I don't play... but that does not happen!

Having these hard fingertips has its advantages and disadvantages. When I play loud brash pieces..super. When I play softer pieces , not so good.

Keep practicing Marc. Forget what the wife says. Give her some washing up to do or ironing. Women like that sort of stuff :-)

[Trapdoor2]

...I have mice in my banjo!

I have removed the La Bella guts and replaced them with CE "MacKillop" guts. While they are a marked improvement, they squeek abominably. Somewhere I have read how to rid one of "banjo mice" but I cannot recall how. Any help out there?

One big improvement over the La Bella gut set...they actually stay in tune. The La Bella set never did "settle in" and required a full semitone "up" every 24hrs...for three weeks. I don't know where all that stretch was coming from (I did all the usuall 'stretching in' stuff) but I expected them to snap at any moment...after 3 wks they were starting to sound 'off' and the 4th was already showing notches at every fret.

The CE set has been on for a few days and they're nicely settled. I put these on my Stewart Orchestra #3 and it sounds quite a bit different. It sounds quite brash now, very trebly and loud, with a pronounced 'ring' to it. Not sure I like that but as before, I'll give myself lots of time to get used to it.

I haven't been playing much lately, too many other things going on. We've had our first tornadoes of the fall season tonight (some trees down in my neighborhood from the high winds) and my yard is now ankle-deep in wet leaves. I'll be raking all next weekend...probably too tired to pick afterwards.

I'm looking forward to the Nashville Banjo Collector's Gathering in two weeks. Carl and Joel are going to be there and we're planning on some Classic and Minstrel jams...and seeing some amazing instruments.

[Trapdoor2]

I suspect the problem is lateral movement of the picking finger in relation to the string. That is, when my fingertip strikes the string and moves along the string a bit during the "pick", it squeeks. If I strike the string with no lateral movement, I get no squeek. Unfortunately, that is difficult for me to control.

I wonder if this set is "oiled gut", they say they're 'moisture proof' or some such thing on the package. Other than the squeek, I like them.