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Comment on: Topic 'Hello World,': n of the stroke style is wrong. Look at videos of people playing. You will see they are not doing what you say they are doing. It's a complex motion and it needn't be described in your article. All you need to say is that the digits pick upward in the "guitar style" and the digits pick downward in the stroke style and that the thumb is used in a different way in each of the techniques. You are not writing a manual on how to play here so I think that is all that is required and you will be accurate. Jack said: Jody, Thank you. I’m a bit embarrassed by the numerous mistakes, and simply plead being brain dead today. I can get writing mechanics cleaned up, but if my knowledge is off, then factual errors will remain without someone like you pointing them out. I took the time to clean up based on your help. Thank you again! One thing I know absolutely nothing about is the stroke. I tried again, taking my description from S. S. Stewart’s Banjo dissertation. I hope it is right, but it looks close to what I wrote before. Classic era, 1880s-1910s The term classic banjo is used today to talk about a bare-finger "guitar style" that was widely in use among banjo players of the late 19th to early 20th century.[23] It is still used by banjoists today. The term also differentiates that style of playing from the fingerpicking bluegrass banjo style.[23] The banjo had grown in popularity since the 1840s when Sweeney began his show; it was estimated in 1866 that that there were probably 10,000 banjos in New York City, up from only a handful in 1844.[24] People were exposed to banjos, not only at minstrel shows, but also medicine shows, Wild-West shows, variety shows, and traveling vaudeville shows.[25] The banjo's popularity also was given a boost by the Civil War, as servicemen on both sides in the Army or Navy were exposed to the banjo played in minstrel shows and by other servicemen.[26] A popular movement of aspiring banjoists began as early as 1861.[27] Their enthusiasm for the instrument was labeled a "banjo craze" or "banjo mania."[27] The minstrel style of banjo playing, taught by the Briggs Banjo Method, used the stroke, in which the thumb plucks and index finger strikes downward, later called "frailing" or "clawhammer."[28][29] However, after 1870 the "guitar style" or "finger style" or "classical style" began to dominate.[30] This style had players use their thumb and one, two fingers or three fingers on their right to pick the notes.[28] The technique was taken from applying the classical guitar techniques to the banjo.[30] The first banjo method to introduce the technique was published in 1865, “Frank B. Converse's New and Complete Method for the Banjo with or without a Master.”[31][32] Jody Stecher said: Well... since you asked.... it still needs work because of errors of both form and content. It would take me close to an hour to enumerate all the problems. Tell you what: I'll address the first few paragraphs and leave the rest to others. Paragraph 1 "guitar style" should be in quotes. "The banjo players" of the period you name did not all use the "guitar style". Some did. It depended on context, on milieu. A "bluegrass banjo" is an instrument built to play bluegrass music. Classic banjo style can be played on such banjos. The term does not "separate" classic banjo from bluegrass banjo. It is used in speech and in writing to differentiate the way the banjo is played in two different musical cultures, What separates them is what is played and how. What you mean (I think) is that the term "classic banjo" is used to differentiate a certain way of playing from the way the banjo is played in bluegrass music..,, and.... and also a repertoire.....and a culture.....and more. Paragraph 2 *when* was it estimated that there were a certain number of banjos in NYC in a certain year? Then? Later? Recently? This is a confusing clause. Sweeney is mispelled. Minstrel is misspelled (as mistrel) I think you mean that people were exposed to banjos, not to "the banjos" or else that would mean the specific 10,000 alleged banjos. Another viable possibility is "exposed to the banjo". The generic meaning is then understood. It is not clear how the returning servicemen obtained the banjos they took home with them. One might infer that they were issued to them along with other weapons, The final sentence is ungrammatical and needs re-doing. Start of third paragraph: the stroke technique is not as described. OK, enough, Someone else take over please. …; Added by Jody Stecher at 4:34 on March 29, 2020

Comment on: Topic 'Baffling tremolo diagram': ew tunes for the banjo and a couple of instruction books, so why is he so important? Jody Stecher said: I'm also a year older than you and therefore entitled to be even more confused. The first reply I made to your post about Hunter (one of my favorite banjo composers) was so confusing that when I read it I couldn't understand what I meant. So I deleted the post and tried again. What I meant about bracing—as I think you worked out — is that Grimshaw recommends bracing on the side of the strings towards the sky, which is the opposite of the side towards the earth, which is where Hunter prescribes bracing. In addition to confusing things I may really type, sometimes my computer "corrects" what I wrote, often a full minute later and makes nonsense out of what I meant to say. When I used to write magazine articles I would sometimes get a human editor who performed this function. Now we can all get nincompoopified with no human intervention. Richard William Ineson said: You win, I got confused (not uncommon these days) with the various references, but having re read your comment a few times I see that you say that Grimshaw said to brace with the thumb 'so the brace is on the opposite side of the 5 strings as with Hunter'. In his 'Banjo Studies, Hunter says to brace with the tourth finger when playing a melody on the 1st string or when playing in the duo style. Exercises 61 -70. However he goes on to advise using the thumb to brace, in combination with the second finger when playing sostenuto on the inner strings. Hunter is the only banjo player, as far as I am aware, to give instruction in playing tremolo on the 3rd,4th and 5th strings, something which I have never seen or heard done by anybody, since I started playing the banjo in the early 1960s, perhaps he was the first and last person to do it. Hunter seems to have covered most aspects of this particular technique except perhaps incorporating artificial harmonics whilst playing a tremolo melody duo style. I think that Grimshaw tells you all you really need to know about Tremelo. One good thing as a result of this discussion i got my banjo out and played through 'Massa's in the Cold Cold Ground', and 'I Dream of Jeannie With the Light Brown Ale' something which I haven't done for some years, it went surprisingly well for a 75 year old pensioner but not something I would risk playing in public. David Milner was famous for playing in the Tremelo style but Ii doubt whether 'Alice Where Art Thou' etc. would be well received by modern audiences. Sid Tuner was also famous for his duo style/tremelo rendition of his arrangement of 'Home Sweet Home' , he used to charge 5/- (25p), which was lot of money in the early 20th century) for a hand written copy of his arrangement of this well known tune, I may have a copy in the archives somewhere, if I could only remember where it is. Jody Stecher said: Hunter and B&M do not say to use the thumb as a brace. I didn't say they did. It is Grimshaw who advises thumb use. I did say that. I mention several other types of tremolo in an earlier message. Here they are again. They are not the only ones. Index starting with up Middle staring with up. Middle starting with down Alternating thumb and index Alternating index and middle, both up. Richard William Ineson said: Hunter and Barnes and Mullins both give examples of Sostenuto/Tremelo playing in the duo style in which the thumb is used to play the accompaniment whilst the melody is played on the 1st string so I cannot agree that Hunter and B&M advised only to use the thumb as the 'brace' as this would have made it impossible to play in the duo style. I'm not really sure what you mean when you write, "Parke Hunter's coverage is thorough in demonstrating various applications of one particular tremolo technique. It is not a survey or exploration of the many ways tremolo may be played". What are the 'many ways that tremolo may be played' which are not covered by Hunter and B&M? …; Added by Richard William Ineson at 22:18 on December 29, 2022

Comment on: Topic 'Zither Banjo Persecution?': s from happening. Most ZB's are at least 80 years old, many well over 100. A high bridge (above 5/8 inch), finger picks and high gauge steel strings is asking for trouble. I've often wondered if the ZB's I've seen which end up with a split back (or ultimately no back at all), are the result of someone playing Bluegrass on them (having been set up accordingly). By the way, is that Banjo Lager for real, or is that the banjo fraternity having one of their little jokes? Where can I find a bottle? Richard William Ineson said: It's not just Yorkshiremen, (or should it be 'Yorkshirepersons'?) who malign the poor old zither banjo, I remember meeting a 'Geordie' (a Geordie is a person who was fortunate enough to be born on Tyneside which is situated in the North East of England, bearing in mind that there are various definitions of the qualifications needed to be classed as a 'Geordie') some years ago, I was playing Bernard Sheaff's 1912 Vibrante at a banjo concert along with Paul Whyman, at the time, and this Geordie chap approached me after our performance and said, 'No one has ever made a good zither banjo'. This Geordie gentleman was a Bluegrass fan and in a way, he was right in his assertion, in so far as zither banjos are not regarded as being the ideal Bluegrass banjo. He was, of course, unacquainted with the Cammeyer/Sheaff recordings of ZB masterpieces such as 'Danse Bizarre' and 'Marche en Passant' along with the few other recordings made by this supreme banjo duo, who probably produced the most musical zither banjo tone and played the most sublime zither banjo music of all time. Our Geordie friend missed the point that as with Bluegrass music, there is a type of banjo which is regarded as being 'the instrument for the job' and with certain types of (but not all) banjo music, the zither banjo is ' the instrument for the job'. Horses for courses as they say. Jody Stecher said: All my life since my early teens I have heard zither-banjos maligned. This was in direct conversation. Not in print. There is no researchable record of my anti-ZB experiences. Instrument shop owners in the early 1960s called them "English banjos". All of them I encountered were lowest model Windsors string with steel wire, They all sounded harsh and shrill. That's what people were commenting on. In the 1980s and thereafter I encountered some zither-banjos strung entirely with nylon strings. These sounded inoffensive but also indistinctive. These were also maligned. All together how many occasions of Z-B dismissal did I encounter? Maybe 8 or 9. But it was from different people and each opinion was in reference to a different zither-banjo. And context made it clear that I was not the only one hearing these opinions and I was not the only one to play these bad sounding banjos. This was in the USA, Later still, during visits to the UK I encountered more derisive opinions about the zither-banjo. The most memorable one from a Yorkshireman who asked if I had ever seen, heard or played "A Windsor". He thought that was the generic name of the instrument, not the brand. And he couldn't stop laughing as he described how horrible it sounded. None of the derisive opinions I heard came from within the Classic banjo community in the USA. I love zither-banjos. I even have one in poor condition that I keep out on an instrument stand just so I can look it at and enjoy its beauty, It's a Cammeyer Patent model. I have never seen a more lovely banjo. All the zither-banjos I have owned came to me sounding bad. I got each to sound marvelous by finding the right bridge for each and by stringing them lightly according to the gauges given to me by David Wade. The gauges differed according to the scale length just as with regular banjos. The only packaged set of zither-banjo strings I have encountered is the one sold by the revived Clifford Essex. I did not like the tone or the feel of them. At least not on the banjo strung with these. I replaced them with lighter gauges and the banjo changed from a wild beast into a lovely sounding instrument. One needs to be patient with all banjos. They all need setup and adjustment. Even straight from the factory or workshop they are often not sounding as good as they could. Joel Hooks said: Have we gone from "many people" to just one? That is big difference. The recent video, and subsequent comments, gives me visions of mobs of townspeople with pitchforks and torches getting ready to storm the zither banjo castle walls. Where are these many people and their hatred? Should be pretty easy to provide links. …; Added by Jake Glanville at 13:02 on April 19, 2023

Comment on: Topic 'Mr. Jollyboy': the illustration on box, and the clothing of the people, this particular jig doll would seem to have been on sale in the period 1930-50 Poor old Grimshaw, (b.1880 d.1943) despite being a prolific composer of music for the fretted instruments, the editor of the B.M.G. magazine from 1911 -1933 (source: Bill Brewer, "The Banjo in Britain" B.M.G. magazine, April 1955. Please note that this reference has been certified by my legal representatives, Messrs. Gready, Slippeshode, Bonidle and Usselesse) and, together with his wife, Florence, a performer on the music halls, possibly because of his north of England origins (he was born in Accrington, Lancashire in 1880) does not seem to have been admitted to the BBC - Bath Banjo Circle. For those not acquainted with the social 'norms' of the UK, people born in the south of the UK generally consider themselves, without foundation, to be superior to those born in the north of the UK, in all respects. Northerners, as they are known, though usually having an equal command of the English language, have a different accent This accent is best demonstrated by using a phrase written in English and then translating into spoken ‘upper/middle class or southern English’ this line spoken by Ms. Celia Johnson (famous English actress b. 1908 d. 1982) in the much acclaimed film, ‘Brief Encounter’(1945) is a good example, “A man came in from the platform, the brim of his hat was turned down” becomes, “A MEN came in from the PLETFORM, the brim of his HET was turned down”, and people from the north of the UK can thus be easily identified, and ridiculed when they visit the south of England). Grimshaw did not seem to fit in with what I term the 'Bath Banjo Circle', (they referred to him as 'Aunt Emily'),which centred around the Baileys (father Richard Bailey (he later adopted, probably as a bit of CV enhancement the 'Tarrant' as a middle name), mother Mary Frances Bailey, who did not adopt the 'Tarrant' middle name and the famous (William or Bill) Tarrant Bailey Jnr. the Baileys’ daughter, Mary ‘Mouse’ Bailey, Joe Morley, (who, if he had not played the banjo so well would not have not even been acknowledged by the Baileys) Sid Turner (A barber/hairdresser by trade, his premises were in Cheltenham (and remarkably were still in use as a barber’s shop when I last looked about three years ago) Cheltenham was and is regarded as being a ‘posh’ town so this fact, together with Sid being quite a decent banjoist and a member of the C.E. Pierrots at one time probably gave him entrée to the BBC (Bath Banjo Circle) then there was J.P. Cunningham, his aunt, Sarah Watling took lessons from Bailey Snr. on the balalaika and Cunninghame was in the Royal Flying Corps so his credentials seem pretty sound, Clifford Essex needs no explanation although we can surmise that he didn’t advertise the fact that his father was a fellmonger in Wrexham. (Source: much, if not all of this information was garnered in my many conversations with Bill Ball (who was not a member of the BBC) of which, I made notes on the day or the day after the conversation, and personal correspondence between myself and Bill Ball which commenced c1981 and continued until his death) Joel Hooks said: Richard is poking fun on a comment I made earlier. Grimshaw started playing mandolin, transitioned to banjo and piano a little after. One account of his playing in the BMG, I think by R. Tarrant Bailey but I could be misremembering, was that Grimshaw lacked the power to be a concert banjoist. This could be why most of his recordings are plectrum. I don’t know. Other accounts in the later BMGs claim that he considered his main instrument the mandolin. Obviously he was a monster composer for banjo, which was the joke I was making earlier, which Richard then posted here. I also have a hard time believing the account of him lacking power for concert work. Austin said: Did he write a method for mandolin? Richard William Ineson said: Grimshaw was primarily an mandonlist, so what did he know about banjo ;-) Joel Hooks said: It is one my my favorite pieces, by one of my favorite composers, so I had to have the toy that inspired it (not that I paid very much for it). …; Added by Richard William Ineson at 10:05 on March 22, 2025

Comment on: Topic 'Classic Banjo.. the continuing story': I am interested while in Seattle in finding others to play non-amplified old time instruments (fiddle,banjo, mandolin, guitar, auto-harp, mountain dulcimer, harmonica, maybe button accordian). I am thinking about using a web site called "Meet up." with these would have to, somehow, exclude Bluegrass, singers, drums, trombones and whistles) Yes, musicians have showed up at old time jams wanting to join in and "help" us! So, even in old time music, we have our issues of definition and exclusion or inclusion (whatever). I didn't understand all of the differences 7 years ago when I first learned to play the mountain dulcimer for $2 a week from a wonderful woman in West Virginia. ============= Sorry for coming to this discussion so late... I've only been on the site for about a month, and it's taken some time to wander around and take in a bit of the great amount of material here. Having spent time in a fairly wide variety of musical circles, and played professionally in many of them, I'm always interested in corss-over issues like this, and finding the balance between peaceful co-existence among genres -- on the one hand -- and making space for those who often have to fight for it, on the other. Where I live there is an annual "folk" festival that's been going on for more than 40 years. For 15 years I never missed attending, but issues exactly like those being discussed here finally caused me to wander away. Originally (long before my day) the festival was specifically for musicians in a particular region who played what was loosely defined as "folk" music. From conversations with old-timers I've gathered that this was primarily what in my early youth was called "coffee house" music -- mostly guitar-based modern adaptations of old folk tunes, mixed in with a little then-current political stuff by the likes of Pete Seager and Bob Dylan. There was also some "old time mountain music", in which banjos, dulcimers, fiddles and the like made their appearance. There were a lot of little stages and workshops throughout the event. By the time I came along, 20 years later, things had been boiled down to a single stage, with professionally provided amplification and lighting, but the music was still primarily acoustical instruments. The scope had broadeded to include musicians from -- basically -- anywhere, and not just the local region, and to include the folk-rock genre, occasionally including a drum set. There was a move on at that time to try to work the folk music of other cultures into the festival -- "world music" as it was called then. By my 10th year of attendance the festival included African marimba bands, Zimbabwean mbira ensembles, Jamaican steel drum groups, and a Mexican mariachi band. As far as musical diversity, this was great. But it also introduced a commercial element into the festival that hadn't really been there before. Up to that point most of the performers had been amateur musicians and groups, or semi-pro, weekend bands at most. But there were no local African or Jamaican bands, so in order to bring that music to the stage it was necessary to hire touring professional ensembles. This turned out to be a bad precedent. Also, there is only so much stage time in any event, and with the inclusion of world music, a lot of the mountain music and old-time music got excluded. Then someone reasoned that if Jamaican steel drum music was OK for the festival, reggae music should be included as well. This occasioned some bitter debate: while a case can be made of the origins of reggae in folk music, it is still primarily an electric music, a lot closer to rock music than to, say, old time fiddling. The champions of reggae won out, and that year we saw electric guitars, basses, and amplifiers on the "folk" fesstival stage, and for the first time ever, the performances could be heard 5 miles away. Not to be outdone, the acoustical contingent of the festival management saw to it the next year that all their performers were a) professional acts which b) brought their own state-of-the-art equipment with them. For the first time, instead of people saying "if you like what you hear, drop by and jam with us Monday nights, at the library", we had people saying "buy my new CD from Columbia". Local musicians were relegated to a tiny portion of the festival, and the all-acoustic amateur bands disappeared completely. Then some local musicians hit on a strategy to get back into the festival. If reggae qualified as "folk music", they reasoned, then so should the blues. Which again is arguably true, if you're talking about the old Robert Johnson, Blind Blake acoustic sort of delta blues. Except what they meant was the B.B./Albert/Freddy King electric Chicago-style bar blues. No matter: they convinced the powers that be, and got into the festival. I stuck it out for two more years, but by that point what had been a festival featuring mostly local, mostly acoustic, mostly amateur, mostly traditional music, had become a combination of non-local commercial pop music and local electric bar bands. Nothing wrong with bar bands, except that I didn't need a festival to hear them: I could hear them any night of the week -- in a local bar. What started out as a festival of vaguely-defined folk music, ended up getting progressively redefined to the point where its only connection with folk music was in the name of the festival. (And eventually they even changed that: it's now sumply called a "music" festival.) The point of this rambling, boring narrative is that, while I love ecclectic and hybrid musical styles, I also think it is very important to be careful when defining specific styles -- like "folk music," or "old time", or "classic banjo", lest someone else define them out of existence on you when you're not paying attention. If everything becomes hybrid, then we lose our roots, and with them a whole host of possibilities. …; Added by Dr H at 21:30 on June 10, 2014

Comment on: Topic 'Public Service Announcement: CE Regal on eBay UK': a great instrument is wonderful, but at this point in my life after owning old Martins and prewar flathead Gibson banjos, I've decided it's not worth it....unless it's a special one, but even then, the money makes no sense the last 20 years of the insane market. Glad Chad got it, and hope he makes good use of it. His hands and mind are certainly well fit to it, or vice versa..... Yes, Jerry sounds great! Keith looks odd to me with gray long hair...when he was my next door neighbor in Nashville, he had short quaffed BLACK hair! I haven't seen Keith since the late '90's before he moved back home. He sounds great as usual, as do you. On the frets....stop thinking about frets as things that affect playability, buzzing, and contact the strings and do what everyone thinks they are suppossed to do for a moment in my explanation...yes they are suppossed to do all that, but...... ....under the surface, they must be mated to the slots correctly, seated properly, and some other things I deal with that I don't want to talk about in public that involve how they are installed (I have my techniques that I'd prefer remained mine until I feel it time to pass them on). Just say that I'm shocked when I see and pull others' frets and see what's "under the hood". I have many stories about leading banjo makers being shown a banjo I rebuilt for a customer and being totally gobsmacked not only by the sound and FEEL of it in their hands/lap/against their body, but many times, a "blimey" reaction to looking at them sitting on the board and how the fret ends look/mate with the binding/edge. But outward appearance is only part of fretwork's impact on the instrument they are installed upon. Jody, like the neck, or the tailpiece, or the head, the frets are part of the banjo. If they are not ONE with the banjo as much as separate pieces could ever be, they are exactly as you describe in your list....a bad neck heel fit for instance, which is a great example. If the neck acts like several loosely attached pieces, especially if they have holes in them, instead of acting as ONE unit together, you loose solidity. Like if a xylophone or marimba had it's keys made from loosely attached pieces instead of one sonorous piece. If you HAD to make each key out of several pieces (like the assemblage of parts or ingredients in a neck) then you'ld want to make that piece/key act as much as one piece as you possibly could. There are several scientific concepts/theories regarding resonance and sound dissipation that I have studied from disciplines other than lutherie but that involve acoustics, and...physics is physics. From what I can tell my fretting techniques are different than anyone elses and maybe somewhat original....got to be careful there as there is nothing new under the sun. But, the difference I have made in almost 2,000 banjos is unmistakable, even to those without keen ears. I'm not surprised about your mandolin fret story. I can turn pretty much any banjo around with only my fretwork. That is only part of the story for the assemblage we call a banjo, but I've A/B placebo tested my techniques constantly over the years to isolate and improve my approach and technique, always critically comparing my results. Most refret by going by the book, yank 'em, bang 'em back in, no buzz, out the door. It's a travesty that the customer base is just....used to. This is the first time I've gone very deep in public about some of my work and I'm a bit self conscious about it. Any review you read of my work from a customer is more powerful than what I could say. My reviews are all on banjohangout...unfortunately, in the reviews, my rim stick/open back banjo work is under represented by having some customers just not post reviews (as with bluegrass customer as well, but I just have more of them), but the results are the same....as they would be on any fretted banjo (you should see my fretwork on fretless banjos....LOL). On the Regal....good story and happy ending on that guitar. I get very attached to my instruments....unless I don't like them or need more money than an instrument, which hopefully will happen very much less at this point in life on than it has in the first 40 years of my playing instruments. You just mentioned when you sold the Regal to me that you would likely be sorry you sold it as it was a somewhat crazy decision....that's the only reason I asked. Unfortunately, I have not developed much of a hands on musical relationship with it yet either as life has thrown some great opportunities my and my wife's way the last year and a half, and to bring these changes to completion will take another year or more, so there hasn't been much time for personal banjo work or serious musical pursuit/practice. But I will say yes, I love it, it will not go anywhere anytime soon barring some unforseen emergency, and I admire it greatly....and I have another one coming from the same area that Fighter Command Groups 10 and 11 covered during the Battle of Britain....ironically, the same time period that "our" Regal would have been on the CE workbenches not far from there. THIS is one reason I love the Regal. It is an historic model that dovetails with a time that I am fascinated with in England, and it is, by my estimation, the last great classic banjo development in design. Who knows who will be the next custodian of the current offering of Regal #251? …; Added by Chris Cioffi at 2:14 on April 10, 2019

Comment on: Topic 'Baffling tremolo diagram': wo are connected in people's minds. Richard William Ineson said: One other thing which occurred to me is why is B. Sheldon Green seen to be such an authority on the Tremelo? I don't know much about him apart from that he was from Australia/New Zealand and wrote a few tunes for the banjo and a couple of instruction books, so why is he so important? Jody Stecher said: I'm also a year older than you and therefore entitled to be even more confused. The first reply I made to your post about Hunter (one of my favorite banjo composers) was so confusing that when I read it I couldn't understand what I meant. So I deleted the post and tried again. What I meant about bracing—as I think you worked out — is that Grimshaw recommends bracing on the side of the strings towards the sky, which is the opposite of the side towards the earth, which is where Hunter prescribes bracing. In addition to confusing things I may really type, sometimes my computer "corrects" what I wrote, often a full minute later and makes nonsense out of what I meant to say. When I used to write magazine articles I would sometimes get a human editor who performed this function. Now we can all get nincompoopified with no human intervention. Richard William Ineson said: You win, I got confused (not uncommon these days) with the various references, but having re read your comment a few times I see that you say that Grimshaw said to brace with the thumb 'so the brace is on the opposite side of the 5 strings as with Hunter'. In his 'Banjo Studies, Hunter says to brace with the tourth finger when playing a melody on the 1st string or when playing in the duo style. Exercises 61 -70. However he goes on to advise using the thumb to brace, in combination with the second finger when playing sostenuto on the inner strings. Hunter is the only banjo player, as far as I am aware, to give instruction in playing tremolo on the 3rd,4th and 5th strings, something which I have never seen or heard done by anybody, since I started playing the banjo in the early 1960s, perhaps he was the first and last person to do it. Hunter seems to have covered most aspects of this particular technique except perhaps incorporating artificial harmonics whilst playing a tremolo melody duo style. I think that Grimshaw tells you all you really need to know about Tremelo. One good thing as a result of this discussion i got my banjo out and played through 'Massa's in the Cold Cold Ground', and 'I Dream of Jeannie With the Light Brown Ale' something which I haven't done for some years, it went surprisingly well for a 75 year old pensioner but not something I would risk playing in public. David Milner was famous for playing in the Tremelo style but Ii doubt whether 'Alice Where Art Thou' etc. would be well received by modern audiences. Sid Tuner was also famous for his duo style/tremelo rendition of his arrangement of 'Home Sweet Home' , he used to charge 5/- (25p), which was lot of money in the early 20th century) for a hand written copy of his arrangement of this well known tune, I may have a copy in the archives somewhere, if I could only remember where it is. Jody Stecher said: Hunter and B&M do not say to use the thumb as a brace. I didn't say they did. It is Grimshaw who advises thumb use. I did say that. I mention several other types of tremolo in an earlier message. Here they are again. They are not the only ones. Index starting with up Middle staring with up. Middle starting with down Alternating thumb and index Alternating index and middle, both up. Richard William Ineson said: Hunter and Barnes and Mullins both give examples of Sostenuto/Tremelo playing in the duo style in which the thumb is used to play the accompaniment whilst the melody is played on the 1st string so I cannot agree that Hunter and B&M advised only to use the thumb as the 'brace' as this would have made it impossible to play in the duo style. I'm not really sure what you mean when you write, "Parke Hunter's coverage is thorough in demonstrating various applications of one particular tremolo technique. It is not a survey or exploration of the many ways tremolo may be played". What are the 'many ways that tremolo may be played' which are not covered by Hunter and B&M? …; Added by Jody Stecher at 0:50 on December 30, 2022

Comment on: Topic 'Calliope Rag': come something of a classic banjo standard over the past few decades. (And great playing, David; I really enjoyed your recording.) Though normally just attributed to James Scott, the piece is almost certainly mostly “Ragtime Bob” Darch’s composition, only the first section possibly being based on a melodic sketch by Scott. As a teenager interested in ragtime, I got to know Bob Darch and even to occasionally play his breaks whenever he passed through my hometown of Omaha, he always happy to encourage the promulgation of and interest in a music to which he’d devoted his life, going out of his way to secure re-recognition and remembrance of the music’s surviving composers and performers — most of them African-American — before racial integration was a part of the national discourse. He also loved a good story. (Google “Scott Joplin’s Dream Darch” for an example. As well, Darch sometimes claimed to have a copy of “Guest of Honor,” Joplin’s lost opera, though after Darch’s death, no copy surfaced.) This said, he was a great friend and inspiration, and he knew and cared more about ragtime — and could play some of the more obscure, complex pieces — than most of his generation. I attach here some June to November 1999 informal but public correspondence from the old ragtime newsgroup between Ed Berlin, immaculate ragtime researcher and Scott Joplin’s impeccable biographer, MIDI specialist Warren Trachtman and pianist Bill Edwards. Besides capturing Darch’s folksy and engaging tone (I’ve never been able to think of a Spencerian dip pen as anything other than a “toad stabber” after this) it clarifies a lot. The best part of all of this story is that Calliope Rag is actually good. It’s even sort of happy-sad in the best ragtime way, and though with the qualified exception of the A melody it’s not really Scott’s composition, it stands as a monument to Darch’s affection (and, apparently, Haven Gillespie’s) for the music and its composers. Of course, Scott’s incandescent legacy is secure with or without Calliope as part, or even partial part, of his oeuvre. — Chris W. ———— About a month ago, there was some discussion on the newsgroup about Calliope Rag. Some interesting speculation was tossed around, including some theories as to why that rag may indeed have been a James Scott composition yet still sound different from his other compositions (written for calliope versus piano, etc). While in Sedalia for the Joplin festival, Bob Darch was one of the few folks remaining at the headquarters hotel on Sunday afternoon. I don't recall just how the subject came up, but Ed Berlin and I took the opportunity to go downstairs from the afterhours piano room where we hangers-on were conversing, and ask Bob Darch directly just what the real story was regarding that piece. I am not making any judgements, pro or con, regarding the following, but merely wish to pass it along as an item of interest.As related to us directly by Bob Darch, the story is as follows: While visiting one of James Scott's relatives (one of his sisters, I think he said), Bob had been shown a (spiral-bound) notebook presumed to belong to James Scott wherein the right-hand, A-section theme, and the title "Calliope Rag" were written. Bob hand-copied the A-section theme (this was before the age of convenient photocopiers) from the notebook. He then filled-in the left hand part for the A-section, and wrote the remaining sections of the piece to complete it.So, as per the conversation with Bob Darch on June 6, 1999, the only material in Calliope Rag which he is claiming to have been of direct James Scott composition is the theme for the A-section. I'm quite sure that Ed Berlin will subsequently have more details and fact cross-checking to pass along which will help to further clarify and expand upon the genesis of this composition. In the meantime, perhaps those of you who were interested in the pedigree of this rag may want to take another look at the piece with the perspective of this input from Bob Darch. Regards, Warren Trachtman Perhaps Warren remembers it more clearly than I (I had had a few drinksby then, though was still far behind Darch), but I don't recall Darchspecifying "spiral-bound notebook". My interest was focussed on therelative contributions of Scott & Darch. I had long doubted that it wasa Scott work, agreed with the editors of the Smithsonian edition, andwas pleased to hear Darch say that he was responsible for most of it. Iremember vaguely reading something about this some years ago, but wouldhave to research to find the original statement. In answer to one of Warren's posted questions: Bob spoke on this issuein response to my question. Bob also said that the truncated (8-m.) Cstrain was based on an idea given to him by Haven Gillespie. Ed Berlin My main interest was also in hearing the nature of the attributed original material to the added material. That was also the primary information I intended to convey in my summary of the discussion. I specifically put the "spiral bound" phrase in parenthesis since I am not sure about that myself, and don't really think it merits the focus it is receiving in the current newsgroup discussion. Bob Darch, in relating the story, made some comments about the notebook, but the description was a bit unclear to me at the time. It seemed to me that the description was close to that of a spiral bound notebook, but since I believed he may have intended something different, I made the reference parenthetical in my paraphrase of his explanation. I do specifically recall him indicating some sort of binding (i.e. not loose-leaf as Paul Wilson suggested). It did not seem to me worth worrying about too much, since it was not themain item of concern. This was, after all, just a conversation, not a 60 minutes interview. I also recall that he indicated there was a third person presentwhen he saw the notebook and copied the theme. It was a woman, who's name was unfamiliar to me at the time, and which I don't recall, but a name which Ed Berlin may recall. Bob Darch did seem quite open and willing, even enthusiastic, to talk about the piece, so I'm sure if somebody wanted to ask him about it again, as Bill suggests, I would expect you would not have any difficulty in that respect. You could certainly takemore detailed notes, and ask more questions about the notebook (including the more important issue of why it was presumed to be James Scott's notebook in the first place) and many other issues, rather than relying on the memory of a casual conversation, as I was doing when I wrote my post. Regards, Warren Trachtman The woman Darch mentioned is Helen Wallace. I called her a few daysbefore the "update" began, and today received Helen's written response: "I have consulted with Smiley [Helen's husband], and this is our memoryof Calliope Rag: "We [Helen, Smiley, Bob and Peggy Darch] were in Carthage, Missouri,when a woman approached Bob and told him she was the great niece ofJames Scott. She had two or three sheets of tattered paper with somemusic written on them. Not a complete score, but ust a phrase or two oneach page. It wasn't much. Bob paid her for the sheets, took themhome, and they were the basis of Calliope Rag. "All this took place over forty years ago. Details are lost in themists of time. To us, it was just someone with old music for Bob. Wedidn't realize it would evolved into Calliope Rag." Hmm. Interesting. In this case, there is no notebook, spiral or bound;and Bob did not copy the music, but received Scott's manuscript (whichis now . . . where?). I'll run this by Bob & see how he responds. Ed Berlin 11/23 It's been a while, but Bob Darch has responded to my request for his recall of Calliope Rag. Here it is, in his words. Ed Berlin ************************************************************ Nov 11, 1999We, my then wife and I, plus the David Wallaces [Smiley & Alice] spent most weekends on field trips, whether searching for wild sassafras bark or sheet music of the ragtime era. Having been informed one night at the club [Mickey Mantle's Holiday Inn, where Bob was playing piano] that living relatives of Jimmy Scott lived in Carthage, the next weekend we went there. Since I had the approx. address and her name (Bessie Anna Geneva Scott Farris), neighbors told us the house she lived in (no numbers). We stopped and went to the door where I introduced myself. We stood on the porch and I asked her about any J. S. music she might have. Then her daughter appeared on the scene and listened in on our conversation. Bessie said she didn't have any music of his so I bid her goodbye and started to leave. Before I got to the car, however, the daughter came running out with five or six manuscript pages of music (single notes/treble clef). She (the daughter) said it was his music. It was ink (toad stabber) over pencil. The paper was once in a cloth & paste type binder, or so it appeared. (The paper was approx. 9"x10" and course.) She wanted money to lend it to me, which I gave her ($15.00) and promised to return it. After copying the music (single notes -- treble clef) and the word Calliope Rag. The following Tuesday I returned the music. (No rebate, by the way, but I didn't care.) I hand copied it since xerox in those days rubbed off easily. I then fleshed it out with an assist from Haven Gillespie as editor. Cordially, "Ragtime Bob" Darch 11/23 Thank you very much for posting this information Ed. I will update my text on the piece appropriately, giving you credit for digging it up. This still leaves a void as to how much of the melody line printed in TAPR was composed by Scott and how much by Darch and/or Gillespe. Obviously the chording and left hand bass were done by them, but did Scott leave any chord designations on the sheet, and was he responsible for just A or A and B? Judging by the number of pages, it sounds like Scott composed more of the melody line than we had recently ascertained. However, it does not mean that all six pages were the same piece (although it sounds like they were from the description) or that Darch and Gillespe used all that was written. The fact that there is no modulation into the C section leaves some doubt about that part being Scott, but then again, that may be how he notated his pieces. I have heard of a few ragtime musicians, some contemporary, who could not notate in complex key signatures, so they wrote in C or F. Then there are cases like Irving Berlin who had to have special transposing pianos built because he could not play in all but selected keys (purportedly F#/Gb was his best). But I think, based on reading material by you and others, that Scott knew quite a bit more than just the basics about notation even as early as 1904. If more than just the A section of Calliope was composed by Scott, albeit the melody, it once again raises the question about inclusion of the piece into Scott collections, or mentions of Scott pieces. It is mentioned in Rags and Ragtime, but was not included in the Complete Works printed a few years back, and was intentionally excluded according the editor. But then again, this is likely making a big deal about a largely insignificant, although cute composition. Once again, thanks for the additional clarification. We may never know the entire story, but this fills in more pieces. Bravo. Bill Edwards 11/23 Everything we've been told, by Darch & by Helen Wallace, is based on 40-yr-old memories. There's no point in trying to dig further for memories that are no longer there. However, Bob indicated right from the beginning (Warren Tractman's posting Calliope Rag - Update, 12 Jun 1999) that only the A section is Scott's. The B section is Darch's, and the C section was by Bob & Haven Gillespie. Since Bob says nothing about chords, we must accept that they were not present. Scott's music reveals him as a sophisticated musician, and this appraisal is supported by what we know of his life. Ed Berlin…; Added by F. Chris Ware at 18:22 on May 9, 2018

Topic: A "New" Vess Ossman recording.. Well, new to me anyway!: Vess L. Ossman. Victor 3041 dated 1901 For two decades, beginning in the 1890s, Vess L. Ossman was the most popular banjoist to make records. It was a propitious time for being a master banjoist since no instrument recorded better than banjo during the industry's early decades. He was nicknamed "the Banjo King" as well as "Plunks." Sylvester ("Vess") Louis Ossman was born on August 21, 1868 in Hudson, New York, son of Frederick and Anna Ossman. His father owned a bakery. According to an obituary cited by Jim Walsh in the February 1949 issue of Hobbies, the young Ossman took his first music lesson from Fidell Wise of Hudson. Only a few banjoists had preceded him in making commercial records. Allen Koenigsberg's Edison Cylinder Records, 1889-1912 (Brooklyn, NY: APM Press, 1987) reprints "The First Book of Phonograph Records," compiled by Edison employee A. Theo E. Wangemann (1855-1906), and it shows Will Lyle making "50 Banjo Records...on invitation" on September 4, 1889. Lyle made additional recordings later that year. Banjo players who recorded as solo instrumentalists in the 1890s include the Bohee Brothers, William Stanley Grinsted (he would later cultivate a singing career, using the nom de disque Frank C. Stanley), Clark H. Jones, Parke Hunter, Rudi Heller, Stephen B. Clements, Ruben ("Ruby") Brooks, the team of Diamond and Curry, the team of Joseph Cullen and William P. Collins, and, in 1898, a young Fred Van Eps, who at that time spelled his name "Van Epps." Ossman's first known cylinder was of Sousa's "Washington Post March," listed in a North American Phonograph Company supplement of 1893. Around this time he also cut "Love's Sweet Honor." He recorded several additional titles for the company in 1894 and within a couple of years became an important Columbia artist, from 1896 to 1899 cutting dozens of titles, sometimes accompanying Len Spencer. From about 1896 to 1910, his services as a recording artist were in great demand, and he continued to record into the World War I era. He made cylinders for Bettini in June 1898 and again around 1900. He made a dozen seven-inch Zon-o-phone discs at the turn of the century. On July 19, 1900, he began his long association with the company that would soon be famous as the Victor Talking Machine Company. On that day he cut several numbers for Eldridge R. Johnson's Consolidated Talking Machine Company. Only one performance from that first session was issued: "An Ethiopian Mardi Gras" (seven-inch A-150). An RCA Victor advertisement in Life for October 26, 1946 commemorates the pressing of the company's one billionth record and announces, "The oldest master record in RCA-Victor's huge library was made on January 21, 1901. It is a banjo solo, played by Vess Ossman, 'Tell Me, Pretty Maiden.'" By the early 1900s Ossman's fame was international. He made two concert tours of England--in 1900 and 1903, making records in London during both visits--and diversified his recording activities beyond solo and accompaniment work to include duets, trios, and a banjo orchestra. He led the Ossman-Dudley Trio, with Audley Dudley on mandolin and his brother George Dudley on harp-guitar (later, the Plantation Trio--with Fred Van Eps, John Van Eps, and Roy Butin--cut again numbers originally recorded by the Ossman-Dudley Trio). He worked for Columbia as late as 1917. He wed Eunice Smith, who was born in Hyde Park, New York (she died around 1930), and the marriage produced three children aside from a few that died in infancy: Vess L. Ossman, Jr. (he also became a skilled banjoist); Raymond; and daughter Annadele, who was born around 1908 (she wrote to Walsh, "...I was his youngest daughter and he died when I was fifteen"). Towards the end of his life he worked most often in Midwestern hotels as a leader of his own dance orchestra and lived with his family in the Riverside apartment complex in Dayton, Ohio. In 1923 he began a tour of B.F. Keith's vaudeville houses, his banjo-playing son, Vess Ossman, Jr., part of the act. The famous musician suffered a heart attack while playing in Minneapolis, Minnesota. He recovered in a hospital from the first attack and returned to stage work. He suffered another attack hours after performing in a vaudeville house in Fairmount, Minnesota. He is buried in Valhalla Cemetery in St. Louis. Some sources state that he died on December 8, 1923, but others state that he died on December 7.…; Added by thereallyniceman at 14:02 on December 31, 2024

Comment on: Topic 'Public Service Announcement: CE Regal on eBay UK': nderstand you correctly you are certain that there will be a difference in sound and response between the same banjo with the frets properly installed and if the frets were installed haphazardly. But why would either of them make a difference in the sound of the open unfretted strings? I think maybe I know at least part of the reason: The frets do vibrate! I have tested it. But it never occurred to me that they contribute to the sound. But in fact everything contributes to the sound. Tuner buttons and their screws have an effect. There is even a difference in sound when a tailpiece cover is closed all the way or partially. But there seems to be more to the story. I'm thinking about your marimba key analogy. By the way the rosewood neck of my fretless banjo (with large Tubaphone pot) was made by the recently departed and deeply missed luthier Paul Hostetter from guess what? A marimba key blank. It yielded 2 necks. Chris Cioffi said: Hi Jody-Strange....the video just played...icon picture and everything...so glad it's still up! I love that video...I guess it was my "courtship" with "our" Regal. Chad sounds great on the Lupot....a great instrument is wonderful, but at this point in my life after owning old Martins and prewar flathead Gibson banjos, I've decided it's not worth it....unless it's a special one, but even then, the money makes no sense the last 20 years of the insane market. Glad Chad got it, and hope he makes good use of it. His hands and mind are certainly well fit to it, or vice versa..... Yes, Jerry sounds great! Keith looks odd to me with gray long hair...when he was my next door neighbor in Nashville, he had short quaffed BLACK hair! I haven't seen Keith since the late '90's before he moved back home. He sounds great as usual, as do you. On the frets....stop thinking about frets as things that affect playability, buzzing, and contact the strings and do what everyone thinks they are suppossed to do for a moment in my explanation...yes they are suppossed to do all that, but...... ....under the surface, they must be mated to the slots correctly, seated properly, and some other things I deal with that I don't want to talk about in public that involve how they are installed (I have my techniques that I'd prefer remained mine until I feel it time to pass them on). Just say that I'm shocked when I see and pull others' frets and see what's "under the hood". I have many stories about leading banjo makers being shown a banjo I rebuilt for a customer and being totally gobsmacked not only by the sound and FEEL of it in their hands/lap/against their body, but many times, a "blimey" reaction to looking at them sitting on the board and how the fret ends look/mate with the binding/edge. But outward appearance is only part of fretwork's impact on the instrument they are installed upon. Jody, like the neck, or the tailpiece, or the head, the frets are part of the banjo. If they are not ONE with the banjo as much as separate pieces could ever be, they are exactly as you describe in your list....a bad neck heel fit for instance, which is a great example. If the neck acts like several loosely attached pieces, especially if they have holes in them, instead of acting as ONE unit together, you loose solidity. Like if a xylophone or marimba had it's keys made from loosely attached pieces instead of one sonorous piece. If you HAD to make each key out of several pieces (like the assemblage of parts or ingredients in a neck) then you'ld want to make that piece/key act as much as one piece as you possibly could. There are several scientific concepts/theories regarding resonance and sound dissipation that I have studied from disciplines other than lutherie but that involve acoustics, and...physics is physics. From what I can tell my fretting techniques are different than anyone elses and maybe somewhat original....got to be careful there as there is nothing new under the sun. But, the difference I have made in almost 2,000 banjos is unmistakable, even to those without keen ears. I'm not surprised about your mandolin fret story. I can turn pretty much any banjo around with only my fretwork. That is only part of the story for the assemblage we call a banjo, but I've A/B placebo tested my techniques constantly over the years to isolate and improve my approach and technique, always critically comparing my results. Most refret by going by the book, yank 'em, bang 'em back in, no buzz, out the door. It's a travesty that the customer base is just....used to. This is the first time I've gone very deep in public about some of my work and I'm a bit self conscious about it. Any review you read of my work from a customer is more powerful than what I could say. My reviews are all on banjohangout...unfortunately, in the reviews, my rim stick/open back banjo work is under represented by having some customers just not post reviews (as with bluegrass customer as well, but I just have more of them), but the results are the same....as they would be on any fretted banjo (you should see my fretwork on fretless banjos....LOL). On the Regal....good story and happy ending on that guitar. I get very attached to my instruments....unless I don't like them or need more money than an instrument, which hopefully will happen very much less at this point in life on than it has in the first 40 years of my playing instruments. You just mentioned when you sold the Regal to me that you would likely be sorry you sold it as it was a somewhat crazy decision....that's the only reason I asked. Unfortunately, I have not developed much of a hands on musical relationship with it yet either as life has thrown some great opportunities my and my wife's way the last year and a half, and to bring these changes to completion will take another year or more, so there hasn't been much time for personal banjo work or serious musical pursuit/practice. But I will say yes, I love it, it will not go anywhere anytime soon barring some unforseen emergency, and I admire it greatly....and I have another one coming from the same area that Fighter Command Groups 10 and 11 covered during the Battle of Britain....ironically, the same time period that "our" Regal would have been on the CE workbenches not far from there. THIS is one reason I love the Regal. It is an historic model that dovetails with a time that I am fascinated with in England, and it is, by my estimation, the last great classic banjo development in design. Who knows who will be the next custodian of the current offering of Regal #251? …; Added by Jody Stecher at 6:29 on April 10, 2019

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