Weaver Banjo Help Needed!

[thereallyniceman]

It is a couple of weeks since I bought my Weaver 11” banjo and I am having a few little niggles with the set-up, so I wonder if anyone could help please.

 

I find that the banjo has been quickly going out of tune (as you can tell if you listen to my recent Porto Rico effort!) I think it is the knots at the tailpiece that I used. Does anyone have a, clear, close-up pic showing the type of knot they use to tie strings to the Weaver wooden floating tailpiece? There are a couple of photos on site of the tailpiece but I can’t see the knot clearly.

 

Secondly, the first string “zings” when I play C at the 10^th. I can tell that it is resonating in harmony with the open 4^th.  BUT it is very noticeable. Do Weavers do this?? I have checked the nut/bridge slots, checked it is not touching higher frets, checked for any rattly parts, altered head tension and it still does it ..  grrrrr!

 

Suggestions??????

 

[Richard William Ineson]

I use the same knot that some classical guitarists use to tie their strings on, pass the end of the string through the hole in the tailpiece, then get some fine sand /glass paper and roughen the surface of the last three inches or so, of the end of the string, now, wind the end of the string round the long section of the string, about 8 times, then pass the end of the string through the loop which has been formed by winding the end of the string round the long section of string. Once the end of the string has gone through the loop, you can now pull the long section of string whilst holding the spirals of string steady and these spirals should now compress themselves into a tight, neat, coil. You can now attach the string at the peg end and bring it up to pitch, when you are doing this, keep an eye on the knot as it may try to untie itself. Roughening the end of the string is to prevent the end of the string slipping through the coils. I have done my best to explain this knot but you might need a live demo to get it right. There is a picture of these knots on my photograph, Weaver 012.  I cannot explain the ghost noises at the tenth fret, I have not come across this before.

[marc dalmasso]

i use  the attaching system of a viola or may be a cello _ cannot remember .

The banjo is my Weaver i play on the " black bess " video ; perfect ; no tune ' problem

[Jody Stecher]

  It is usually some specific loose part on the banjo that vibration of the string sets in motion. Methodically search the entirety of the banjo as you play high C and you will find the cause. Put aside any preconception of what part is capable of rattling and you will find both the cause and the solution. One of the most bizarre banjo sounds I ever got was the highest C (an octave above the C giving you trouble) on my J E Dallas zither-banjo. I finally identified the cause and solution by adjusting the bridge position, causing the scale length to shorten by a teensy increment. The godawful noise went away.  Another rattle I recently fixed was on a student's banjo. As in your case it only happened at one pitch. It turned out to be a slightly loose screw on the fifth string peg.  Go through all the component parts of the banjo and you'll be able to fix it.  

I don't think the knot is the culprit in the matter of pitch slippage. Once a knot is secure it is....... secure. It cannot slip. If it slips it slips all the way and comes undone .  But certain types of strings do keep stretching for a while and certain pegs do slip. What sort of strings are you using? Another thing to check is whether the neck and pot are tightly joined. A loose connection can cause all sorts of sonic problems.

[thereallyniceman]

WEAVER FIXED !

Thanks to everyone who has made suggestions.

I am sure that Marc D was correct that I did not leave the banjo long enough to settle down after I re-built it and fitted new head and strings....  it was just excitement !!!

I think that using gut to tie the tailpiece was an error. I used a very old gut string and treaded it several times for strength, so over the week or so it has been slowly stretching so the tailpiece has moved slowly, and along with the nylon strings stretching, constantly put the strings out of tune. This is much improved now, but I may do as Mike Moss and Marc suggest and, in the future, fit a violin/viola Kevlar end wire to retain the tailpiece.

Thanks Richard for the “nylon guitar” string-tying lesson. It looks good to me and I have watched Youtube to see demonstrations, so the next strings will be tied that way.

But a big thanks goes to Jody for one of his suggestions!

After much messing about and swearing trying to stop my first string “zinging” I found that using this:

... and tapping in the ebony wedges even more, I “really” tightened the neck/hoop joint and immediately the banjo sprung into life. It was brighter, more responsive, less clattery and now sounds great.

 

It never quite sounded 100% correct before, but it is pretty darned close now.

 

Thanks everyone.

[thereallyniceman]

FOLLOW UP:

When I first got the Weaver I complained of "zinging"  and the tone was not as I expected it. After your suggestions I checked out for loose bits and found that tightening the ebony wedges improved things. BUT it still sounded not quite right. The strings sounded dull and rattly. I did some serious checking and when I looked at the nut grooves they seemed to be lined with a gluey gunge and on very close inspection (using a stereo microscope) I could see that the strings were sitting on the very back edge of the nut groove, so that when picked the string rattled from side to side in the groove causing the poor buzzy tone.

I have some welding torch tip cleaners (micro needle files or tip cleaners on Ebay at £1.75!)

and ran one through a groove and all the waxy goo came off leaving a groove sloping the correct way with the string just sitting on the front edge (fretboard side) of the groove. I did not file the ebony nut, just removed the gunge.  The tone improved dramatically and the sound is now clean and crisp (my recent video of Keynotes Rag was done after I cleaned the nut). The zinging stopped and Ian was a happy bunny!

I then checked out another banjo and hey presto it was full of 100 year old gunge too, so I cleaned those grooves  and that banjo sounds better too.

While checking all this I noticed something that I had not seen before! Using nylon strings if you look very closely at the string sitting in the nut you can see a narrow black line, showing through the string, at the contact point where the string sits in the groove.

On my Weaver this line was at the back of the nut... after cleaning out it can now be seen at the front edge! (the 1st string line is a little further back as the nut edge is a bit worn)

Maybe lots of old banjos could sound a lot better with a bit of simple housekeeping !!