hi there 

Can anyone tell the average classic banjo action on the 12 fret? Also i am wondering how to make my banjo sound more deep and with some more bass?

best regards 

Morten

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Some of us like the tin can sound. Look up videos of Tarrant Bailey Jr. on YouTube to see why. :)

Contrary to what you might have read, a Renaissance head will make your banjo even thinner and brighter sounding when using nylon. I find a frosted top to have the right balance in tone, and when set up right they sound remarkably similar to high quality calfskin.

morten lind said:

Okay of cause your are right, it is improving the more i play.

But still sounds a bit tin can like when i am picking hard. maybee i will try a renaissance head.



Joel Hooks said:

The "tone" depends on what you want.  If you are going for "historically informed" then it is bright and loud.  That bright tone gives all the power one needs for playing with dynamics and shading. 

The current trend, keeping with modern ideas of popular music or nostalgia, is doing away with the treble and focusing on the bass and midrange. This is reflected in the heavy strings people are using.  Unfotunelty this limits dynamic ranges. 

I will say that most of the tone comes from the right hand.  I would warn any tyro from developing ideas too early.  Get some practice time in.  Pay attention to making each note musical and the tone and power will come.

Read up on the time devoted to bow strokes by violinists.  While a good part of tone is in a quality instrument-- most of it comes from the bow (or with banjos the fingers).

John, I strongly disagree about your comments on the Renaissance head.  I swapped almost all my banjo heads to Renaissance, but maybe this is because of my picking style.... all a matter of personal taste.... BUT my CE Regal has a frosted REMO and it sounds superb.

I always say, and this has been a long and ongoing argument, that you can play Classic style anyway you want and any way that you like the sound of, BUT if you want to hear how it WAS played by the masters of the listen to Fred Van Eps, Fred Bacon, Tarrant Bailey Junior or William J Ball etc.. The style WAS distinct with a bright snappy sound, not a warm, tubby, sweet and sugary one.

thanks for the advice, i properly just need some more excersice. Does any of you know if its a good to have the set a little bit higher than rim. Just a thought because mine banjo head and the rim are in the same level wich makes it hard for me to get a high action without being to high to fret ?

Thanks again for all the inputs

Ian, I think our differing experiences with Ren heads might be due to our different setups. I use lighter bridges than you do and much lighter strings. Every time I've tried a Ren head (regardless of the type of banjo) it made my too bright and thin. Just for a frame of reference, I really like bright, sharp tone (think TBJ, Van Eps, Bradbury), and I get that sort of sound using a tight Frosted Top. The Ren heads took things too far and had a slower response.

thereallyniceman said:

John, I strongly disagree about your comments on the Renaissance head.  I swapped almost all my banjo heads to Renaissance, but maybe this is because of my picking style.... all a matter of personal taste.... BUT my CE Regal has a frosted REMO and it sounds superb.

I always say, and this has been a long and ongoing argument, that you can play Classic style anyway you want and any way that you like the sound of, BUT if you want to hear how it WAS played by the masters of the listen to Fred Van Eps, Fred Bacon, Tarrant Bailey Junior or William J Ball etc.. The style WAS distinct with a bright snappy sound, not a warm, tubby, sweet and sugary one.

No, you want the fingerboard sitting even with the pot. It sounds like you may have a neck angle issue (modern banjos have back angle to allow for taller bridges). Also, keep in mind that it takes some practice to fret the strings with action as high as that used in classic banjo playing. It's far higher than guitar action. 

morten lind said:

thanks for the advice, i properly just need some more excersice. Does any of you know if its a good to have the set a little bit higher than rim. Just a thought because mine banjo head and the rim are in the same level wich makes it hard for me to get a high action without being to high to fret ?

Thanks again for all the inputs

John, Yep all down to how we set up, how we pick and what we prefer. I tried an 11" Remo Fibreskin and had the same problems you describe. It was "hard" to play and felt and sounded dreadful. I use a lot of heavy and medium gauge nylons (The old Sands and CE Music ones). I now prefer medium CEs on my Weavers... with a Morley Bridge and Renaissance head! I am a bit too heavy handed for light strings :-)

John Cohen said:

Ian, I think our differing experiences with Ren heads might be due to our different setups. I use lighter bridges than you do and much lighter strings. Every time I've tried a Ren head (regardless of the type of banjo) it made my too bright and thin. Just for a frame of reference, I really like bright, sharp tone (think TBJ, Van Eps, Bradbury), and I get that sort of sound using a tight Frosted Top. The Ren heads took things too far and had a slower response.

thereallyniceman said:

John, I strongly disagree about your comments on the Renaissance head.  I swapped almost all my banjo heads to Renaissance, but maybe this is because of my picking style.... all a matter of personal taste.... BUT my CE Regal has a frosted REMO and it sounds superb.

I always say, and this has been a long and ongoing argument, that you can play Classic style anyway you want and any way that you like the sound of, BUT if you want to hear how it WAS played by the masters of the listen to Fred Van Eps, Fred Bacon, Tarrant Bailey Junior or William J Ball etc.. The style WAS distinct with a bright snappy sound, not a warm, tubby, sweet and sugary one.

Is there a place to buy la bella strings outside the us?

thereallyniceman said:

John, Yep all down to how we set up, how we pick and what we prefer. I tried an 11" Remo Fibreskin and had the same problems you describe. It was "hard" to play and felt and sounded dreadful. I use a lot of heavy and medium gauge nylons (The old Sands and CE Music ones). I now prefer medium CEs on my Weavers... with a Morley Bridge and Renaissance head! I am a bit too heavy handed for light strings :-)

John Cohen said:

Ian, I think our differing experiences with Ren heads might be due to our different setups. I use lighter bridges than you do and much lighter strings. Every time I've tried a Ren head (regardless of the type of banjo) it made my too bright and thin. Just for a frame of reference, I really like bright, sharp tone (think TBJ, Van Eps, Bradbury), and I get that sort of sound using a tight Frosted Top. The Ren heads took things too far and had a slower response.

thereallyniceman said:

John, I strongly disagree about your comments on the Renaissance head.  I swapped almost all my banjo heads to Renaissance, but maybe this is because of my picking style.... all a matter of personal taste.... BUT my CE Regal has a frosted REMO and it sounds superb.

I always say, and this has been a long and ongoing argument, that you can play Classic style anyway you want and any way that you like the sound of, BUT if you want to hear how it WAS played by the masters of the listen to Fred Van Eps, Fred Bacon, Tarrant Bailey Junior or William J Ball etc.. The style WAS distinct with a bright snappy sound, not a warm, tubby, sweet and sugary one.

No, you have to order them from their site.

Pyramid strings also offers singles in the correct gauges. They are based in Germany.

Okay is that the ones for lute?

John Cohen said:

No, you have to order them from their site.

Pyramid strings also offers singles in the correct gauges. They are based in Germany.

For my part La Bella strings are the worse strings i used to mount on a banjo . I don 't like  nylgut , there are very good but the flashy ' concert tone  vanish   after one month of   using ;

i use Savarez strings " instruments anciens " or  50 / 60 / 70 / ... / 50 fishline  , any guitar D string for the bass  (usualy Pyramid or Pink  Savarez  ) , up to the banjo ' scale

CE  or others strings are almost so good , i guess

I do not like the tension or tone of Savarez carbon strings, and I find that they do not intonate well. Seaguar Premier carbon fishing line is far less expensive and intonates perfectly. It sounds and feels the same as the Savarez carbon, so I don't personally like it, but you should give it a shot if you like the Savarez strings.

I hope Morten has learned that nothing is set in concrete for Classic Banjo! ;-)

I also dislike the LaBella strings and really dislike the "original" sizes as posted. I used to prefer Nylgut but Mimmo has changed the formulation so much that now I don't like them...and they're hard to get with a wound 4th (I bought CE 4ths).

I think I'm playing CE gut strings at the moment. They haven't been changed on my banjo in years (literally).

Nails vs Fingertips: same old, same old. Use what you prefer. I use a very short nail ("composite stroke"), many others use a classical guitar style nail and still others use fingerpicks/thumb picks just like you might with Bluegrass. Ian uses his bare fingers for rough carpentry work, just forcing nails in with his fingertips...they probably could be used to engrave cast iron. The grooves in his fingertips are admired by all...

In the end, you will find what suits you via experimentation. We are all unique...just like everybody else. ;-)

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