Hi everyone. Both a new member of the forum, and I've arrived armed with a "new" banjo too.

I'm a complete newcomer to the banjo, and recently got myself this late 19th century (or sometime between 1880 and 1905 from what I can discern) 7-string zither banjo by Howard's in Manchester.

I'm not necessarily looking to restrict myself to specific banjo music on it, as I want to be freer than that, which is why this forum appealed. I don't want to be just rattling out rolls at breakneck speed, that's not the forte of these instruments anyway from what I can glean. As I really ought to have some "structure" to my learning, I considered stringing this in gDADGAD tuning, and have ordered a mixture of strings from Clifford Essex (a 7 string banjo set, and a classic guitar set) and Eagle Music (steel loop end 1st, 2nd, and 7th) to play around with. I think the slower pace (typically) of DADGAD fingerstyle guitar should work well on this, and I have a couple of books on the way to work from.As I get a better appreciation of the instrument, I may well change tack in terms of tuning and what I want to play on it.

I've also bought a replacement vellum, but to be perfectly honest, I'm not sure it needs it. But what do I know? I've currently got the pot stripped down to clean it out, and clean up the metalwork a little. I'm not intending polishing, or removing all of its acquired character, just doing a little "housekeeping" before I fit the new strings. I'm planning on putting the original velum back on, and keeping the new one as a spare, just in case I do the head a mischief in my initial experimentation.

I look forward to learning from you all, and if there's anything in what I've said so far that soiunds abysmally wrong, please don't be shy in letting me know.

Cheers

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1) yes, that's a long-ish scale.

2) some players like to use a strap whilst playing seated.  ( I don't).

Thanks Jody, I didn't think this would be a reduced size version in length OR width. I take David's point that it might look like ribbon attachment points, but I'm not convinced that's what they're there for. As such, "ladies version" doesn't ring true either. This is not a small instrument. I haven't taken one of the screws out yet, to see how much purchase they have.

I haven't made my own mind up on whether to strap or not yet. I need to finish this initial set up and have a play with it first. There's a lot of bulk/mass on this neck, and the additional support might be worthwhile.

Jody Stecher said:

1) yes, that's a long-ish scale.

2) some players like to use a strap whilst playing seated.  ( I don't).

I had an Abbott z-b a while back that on the back of the peghead  had something like what might be a ribbon holder or strap holder on yours. It screwed out and could be screwed into a threaded hole at the fifth fret. It was a sort of capo and it was used to create:  INSTANT BANJEURINE !   There was a little bone nub at fret 10 that the fifth string could slip under. Better looking than a model railroad spike.

Aimless Wanderer said:

Thanks Jody, I didn't think this would be a reduced size version in length OR width. I take David's point that it might look like ribbon attachment points, but I'm not convinced that's what they're there for. As such, "ladies version" doesn't ring true either. This is not a small instrument. I haven't taken one of the screws out yet, to see how much purchase they have.

I haven't made my own mind up on whether to strap or not yet. I need to finish this initial set up and have a play with it first. There's a lot of bulk/mass on this neck, and the additional support might be worthwhile.

Jody Stecher said:

1) yes, that's a long-ish scale.

2) some players like to use a strap whilst playing seated.  ( I don't).

I like the sound of that integral capo idea. There's certainly no such feature on this one.

One other observation I have to make about mine, is how low the frets are. They are not worn, just low. I suppose that the profiled fret wire that we take for granted these days, had not been developed back then, and they just had to make do with available marquetry materials.

As my instrument is not fully operational just yet, I'll throw this question out there. Has anyone else found such low frets on their instrument, and did it prove problematic? If so, what was done to address if? Scalloping the fretboard wouldn't be an option, as the ebony is very thin due to the laminated construction, so replacing the frets with modern fret wire (along with a corresponding raised nut) or even flush fretting, would be the two most obvious courses of action. I just wondered if anyone has taken a different tack.

Hi Al,

My advice is to keep the instrument as it is, put on strings for which is was designed and explore the music of the period in which it was first being played. This would then be a completely separate venture from your other musical endeavours. 

I hope that you are now finding some benefits from making music.

Kind regards, Ian from slidemeister.

I have played literally hundreds of old instruments with low frets. I never found a problem. I never had a problem with period gauge string and never with modern gauges. If the frets are not worn then what's the concern?  What did you mean about marquetry materials?   These don't look like  inlaid markers. They are metal frets, right? 

Aimless Wanderer said:

I like the sound of that integral capo idea. There's certainly no such feature on this one.

One other observation I have to make about mine, is how low the frets are. They are not worn, just low. I suppose that the profiled fret wire that we take for granted these days, had not been developed back then, and they just had to make do with available marquetry materials.

As my instrument is not fully operational just yet, I'll throw this question out there. Has anyone else found such low frets on their instrument, and did it prove problematic? If so, what was done to address if? Scalloping the fretboard wouldn't be an option, as the ebony is very thin due to the laminated construction, so replacing the frets with modern fret wire (along with a corresponding raised nut) or even flush fretting, would be the two most obvious courses of action. I just wondered if anyone has taken a different tack.
Oh, hi Ian. Small world!

Musical development is slow, or should I say progression per instrument is slow, but that's just my physical limitations of how long I can spend on any one thing. Having so many instruments to swap between really does help stop getting frustrated with that, and I'm certainly getting benefits in terms of the neurological challenges. In time, I hope that'll increase the duration I can spend on any instrument in one sitting. Even just getting past 10 minutes will be a HUGE milestone in management/recovery. In terms of theory, I still have a LONG way to go, but I've learnt way more in the last 6 months than I ever did on linear path learning. This is undoubtedly the best approach for me, even if it does seem totally crackers to everyone else.

I've "shelved" that harmonica restoration for now, and just use the new stuff. The stuff I learned from playing around with it will help me immensely on one of my other current projects though - sorting out a few reed issues on a chromatic button accordion I received this month. I've already managed to fix a few dropped and sticking keys on the bass side, but I need to strip down the treble side next, as there's three or four reeds not firing.

As to this noisemaker, if I can get gDADGAD to work, I can use the full range of strings for modern stuff, and strings 1 to 4 + 7 for the period stuff with minimal retuning, and therefore expose myself to two different playing styles on one bit of kit. It's only the two lower bass strings which are different to the original configuration. I don't think there's enough 7 string zither pieces, for DADGAD to be an obstacle in playing the Victorian era stuff. In fact, it should become a lot more versatile, and open the instrument up to a lot of other written music. Almost like getting two instruments for the price of one.

It's so good to hear that you are making some progress and dealing with the time limitations. 

Ooops! Sorry Jody, I seem to have skipped over your reply somehow.

Ignore everything I said! I thought it might have been some inlaid wire left slightly proud rather than fret wire, but on closer inspection, I was completely wrong, and talking out of the wrong orifice. Good to hear low frets haven't been an issue. The ones on this just felt lower than on my other instruments (but consistently so), and wondered it this might cause issues getting a clear tone. False alarm. They are low (less than 1mm) but I can see now that it is formed fret wire.



Jody Stecher said:

I have played literally hundreds of old instruments with low frets. I never found a problem. I never had a problem with period gauge string and never with modern gauges. If the frets are not worn then what's the concern?  What did you mean about marquetry materials?   These don't look like  inlaid markers. They are metal frets, right? 

Cheers Ian

IAN SALTER said:

It's so good to hear that you are making some progress and dealing with the time limitations. 

Exposed fret ends have all been dressed, and I have given it all a bit of a clean up with some fine wire wool where appropriate, and a soft cloth. I started to put it back together, but wasn't happy with the condition of the vellum. There's about a 3" length on the corner as it drops down to the flesh ring that seems rather worn, and there's a few small holes on the drop down to the flesh ring too.

I was intending to do the first set up with the existing head, but I might as well get that replaced now, rather than have it fail just after I've restrung it. I do have a new vellum here ready, so I just need a good health day to fit it.

One step nearer...

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