Cullen and Collins - Classic-Banjo2024-03-28T10:46:22Zhttps://classic-banjo.ning.com/forum/topics/cullen-and-collins?commentId=2667446%3AComment%3A142020&x=1&feed=yes&xn_auth=noThank you. I didn't know abou…tag:classic-banjo.ning.com,2020-03-16:2667446:Comment:1420202020-03-16T13:38:22.190ZTrapdoor2https://classic-banjo.ning.com/profile/Trapdoor2
<p>Thank you. I didn't know about #5 and Van Eps, so I'll have a look into it.</p>
<p>I have upwards of 100 Edison 2min cylinders, the 17 Berliners and scads of early 78s...only one banjo cylinder and that's the common Len Spencer/Van Eps "Hickory Bill". They were either unpopular in my area or played to death. Considering the dearth of banjo music in North Alabama, I'd go with "unpopular".<br></br> <br></br> <cite>Richard William Ineson said:…</cite></p>
<p>Thank you. I didn't know about #5 and Van Eps, so I'll have a look into it.</p>
<p>I have upwards of 100 Edison 2min cylinders, the 17 Berliners and scads of early 78s...only one banjo cylinder and that's the common Len Spencer/Van Eps "Hickory Bill". They were either unpopular in my area or played to death. Considering the dearth of banjo music in North Alabama, I'd go with "unpopular".<br/> <br/> <cite>Richard William Ineson said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="https://classic-banjo.ning.com/forum/topics/cullen-and-collins?xg_source=activity#2667446Comment142019"><div><div class="xg_user_generated"><p>I love the Spanish Dance No.1 and you've done a wonderful banjo arrangement of it. I didn't realise that any banjo players of the past had played these pieces, the only one I have heard before is on the Van Eps record and that, I think, is SD No. 5 the Bolero which is also a good banjo tune.</p>
<p>Talking of your Berliner records, do you have Mays and Hunter playing the 'Stratton Medley'? This is probably the only recording of M&H doing their famoustheir 'making their banjos talk' routine and I would love to hear what it sounded like.</p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote> I love the Spanish Dance No.1…tag:classic-banjo.ning.com,2020-03-16:2667446:Comment:1420192020-03-16T09:46:17.782ZRichard William Inesonhttps://classic-banjo.ning.com/profile/RichardWilliamIneson351
<p>I love the Spanish Dance No.1 and you've done a wonderful banjo arrangement of it. I didn't realise that any banjo players of the past had played these pieces, the only one I have heard before is on the Van Eps record and that, I think, is SD No. 5 the Bolero which is also a good banjo tune.</p>
<p>Talking of your Berliner records, do you have Mays and Hunter playing the 'Stratton Medley'? This is probably the only recording of M&H doing their famoustheir 'making their banjos talk'…</p>
<p>I love the Spanish Dance No.1 and you've done a wonderful banjo arrangement of it. I didn't realise that any banjo players of the past had played these pieces, the only one I have heard before is on the Van Eps record and that, I think, is SD No. 5 the Bolero which is also a good banjo tune.</p>
<p>Talking of your Berliner records, do you have Mays and Hunter playing the 'Stratton Medley'? This is probably the only recording of M&H doing their famoustheir 'making their banjos talk' routine and I would love to hear what it sounded like.<br/> <br/> <cite>Trapdoor2 said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="https://classic-banjo.ning.com/forum/topics/cullen-and-collins?xg_source=activity#2667446Comment142016"><div><div class="xg_user_generated"><p>Berliner's first record company was in NYC but failed before it could make any product. He moved to DC and in the mid 1890s started the "United States Gramaphone Company"...and started production in 1894. He opened offices in NYC as the "National Gramaphone Company" but there was no production there. His DC facilities burned down in '97 and were rebuilt. Because he was teaming with Eldridge Johnson for the drive mechanisms, that portion was made in Philly.</p>
<p>I have 17 Berliner discs, about half have titles hand scratched into the disc, including what I believe is the first recording of Sousa's "Stars and Strips Forever" dated November 1897...only 6 mo after Sousa premiered it in Philly.</p>
<p>BTW, the "Spanish Dances #1 and #2" published by Stewart were arranged by A.A. Farland.</p>
<p>The "Spanish Dance" by B&D is Moszkowski's "Spanish Dance #1".</p>
<p>Here's my arrangement, taken from a version for 4 hands piano, pub. 1883. I've arranged it for Banjeaurine, 1st Banjo, 2nd Banjo and Cello Banjo. Not quite complete...but a work in progress. I've got #2 going as well.</p>
<p> </p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote> I'm planning on being there!tag:classic-banjo.ning.com,2020-03-16:2667446:Comment:1420182020-03-16T03:43:00.417ZTrapdoor2https://classic-banjo.ning.com/profile/Trapdoor2
I'm planning on being there!
I'm planning on being there! Thanks for clarifying Marc, a…tag:classic-banjo.ning.com,2020-03-16:2667446:Comment:1423442020-03-16T02:16:09.152ZShawn McSweenyhttps://classic-banjo.ning.com/profile/ShawnMcSweeny
<p><span style="font-size: 12pt;">Thanks for clarifying Marc, and kudos for your arrangement. When ready, send Joel Hooks a pdf and let the ABF orchestra have a go with it.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-size: 12pt;">Thanks for clarifying Marc, and kudos for your arrangement. When ready, send Joel Hooks a pdf and let the ABF orchestra have a go with it.</span></p> Berliner's first record compa…tag:classic-banjo.ning.com,2020-03-15:2667446:Comment:1420162020-03-15T23:50:45.019ZTrapdoor2https://classic-banjo.ning.com/profile/Trapdoor2
<p>Berliner's first record company was in NYC but failed before it could make any product. He moved to DC and in the mid 1890s started the "United States Gramaphone Company"...and started production in 1894. He opened offices in NYC as the "National Gramaphone Company" but there was no production there. His DC facilities burned down in '97 and were rebuilt. Because he was teaming with Eldridge Johnson for the drive mechanisms, that portion was made in Philly.</p>
<p>I have 17 Berliner discs,…</p>
<p>Berliner's first record company was in NYC but failed before it could make any product. He moved to DC and in the mid 1890s started the "United States Gramaphone Company"...and started production in 1894. He opened offices in NYC as the "National Gramaphone Company" but there was no production there. His DC facilities burned down in '97 and were rebuilt. Because he was teaming with Eldridge Johnson for the drive mechanisms, that portion was made in Philly.</p>
<p>I have 17 Berliner discs, about half have titles hand scratched into the disc, including what I believe is the first recording of Sousa's "Stars and Strips Forever" dated November 1897...only 6 mo after Sousa premiered it in Philly.</p>
<p>BTW, the "Spanish Dances #1 and #2" published by Stewart were arranged by A.A. Farland.</p>
<p>The "Spanish Dance" by B&D is Moszkowski's "Spanish Dance #1".</p>
<p>Here's my arrangement, taken from a version for 4 hands piano, pub. 1883. I've arranged it for Banjeaurine, 1st Banjo, 2nd Banjo and Cello Banjo. Not quite complete...but a work in progress. I've got #2 going as well.</p>
<p> </p> Hi Jody : Indeed the Berliner…tag:classic-banjo.ning.com,2020-03-15:2667446:Comment:1424342020-03-15T19:46:21.044ZShawn McSweenyhttps://classic-banjo.ning.com/profile/ShawnMcSweeny
<p><span style="font-size: 12pt;">Hi Jody :</span> <span style="font-size: 12pt;">Indeed the Berliners were recorded in NYC. Speaking of the Bailey recordings, I enjoy hearing Joe Morley's voice as he announces his performances.</span></p>
<p></p>
<p><span style="font-size: 12pt;">Hi Richard : Glad you found the C&C story to be a good read. T…</span></p>
<p><span style="font-size: 12pt;">Hi Jody :</span> <span style="font-size: 12pt;">Indeed the Berliners were recorded in NYC. Speaking of the Bailey recordings, I enjoy hearing Joe Morley's voice as he announces his performances.</span></p>
<p></p>
<p><span style="font-size: 12pt;">Hi Richard : Glad you found the C&C story to be a good read. T<span style="color: #000000; font-family: &quot; arial&quot;; font-size: 12pt; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: left; text-decoration: none; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;">o get you started on "Zulu", h</span>ere's a tip : the recording is pitched at or near Cm and Eb. Most of the fill notes and triplet rolls are obscured by surface noise, so expect that you'll have to improvise.</span></p> Thanks for sharing this fasci…tag:classic-banjo.ning.com,2020-03-15:2667446:Comment:1423392020-03-15T17:24:19.664ZRichard William Inesonhttps://classic-banjo.ning.com/profile/RichardWilliamIneson351
<p>Thanks for sharing this fascinating insight into the lives and times of the famous but hitherto elusive Cullen and Collins. I think that I had only heard the 'Twin Star' march by this duo before so was pleased to hear the recordings which you have traced, can't wait to make a start on 'Zulu Jingles' when time allows. I was also interested to read about Fred Gaisburg who is more well known than C&C these days. </p>
<p>Thanks for sharing this fascinating insight into the lives and times of the famous but hitherto elusive Cullen and Collins. I think that I had only heard the 'Twin Star' march by this duo before so was pleased to hear the recordings which you have traced, can't wait to make a start on 'Zulu Jingles' when time allows. I was also interested to read about Fred Gaisburg who is more well known than C&C these days. </p> Thanks for sharing your resea…tag:classic-banjo.ning.com,2020-03-15:2667446:Comment:1422462020-03-15T16:45:58.091ZJody Stecherhttps://classic-banjo.ning.com/profile/JodyStecher
<p>Thanks for sharing your research and these old recordings of good banjo playing.</p>
<p>"Delcro", an early prototype of velcro? </p>
<p>Re NY vs Washington, I think the Cullen and Collins Columbia cylinders (C&C's c c-s !) were recorded in Washington but weren't the Berliner discs done in NYC?</p>
<p>I <em>like</em> the barking announcements at the start of old banjo records. I especially like it when the young Bailey children do their own announcing on home-made…</p>
<p>Thanks for sharing your research and these old recordings of good banjo playing.</p>
<p>"Delcro", an early prototype of velcro? </p>
<p>Re NY vs Washington, I think the Cullen and Collins Columbia cylinders (C&C's c c-s !) were recorded in Washington but weren't the Berliner discs done in NYC?</p>
<p>I <em>like</em> the barking announcements at the start of old banjo records. I especially like it when the young Bailey children do their own announcing on home-made cylinders.</p>
<p><br/> <br/> <cite>Shawn McSweeny said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="https://classic-banjo.ning.com/forum/topics/cullen-and-collins?commentId=2667446%3AComment%3A142128&xg_source=activity#2667446Comment142128"><div><div class="xg_user_generated"><p><span style="font-size: 12pt;">Hi Marc. Glad you enjoyed the article.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-size: 12pt;">I'm not familiar with the Stewart score, but Brooks and Denton published their arrangement of Mozskowski's "Spanish Dance" in 1892. Ossman worked with B&D for about 18 months in the mid 1890's and would have absorbed their repertoire, so it is probably the same piece that <span style="text-align: left; color: #1d2228; text-transform: none; text-indent: 0px; letter-spacing: normal; font-family: Helvetica Neue,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; text-decoration: none; word-spacing: 0px; display: inline !important; white-space: normal; orphans: 2; float: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: #ffffff;">he recorded as "Spanish Dance" for Columbia around 1896 or 97, for Bettini in June, 1896, and for Berliner in March, 1900. A pdf of my C notation and digital playback of the B&D arrangement are below. Nice example of classical banjo.</span></span></p>
<p><span style="text-align: left; color: #1d2228; text-transform: none; text-indent: 0px; letter-spacing: normal; font-family: Helvetica Neue,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; text-decoration: none; word-spacing: 0px; display: inline !important; white-space: normal; orphans: 2; float: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: #ffffff;">Jodie, there are a number of typos in B.O.R. For example, Ossman's recording of "Del Oro" being listed as "Del Cro" comes to mind. Perhaps there is no voice introducing the piece because Berliner could imprint descriptive text onto the grooveless portion of the disc. By comparison, while Edison and Columbia cylinder tubes were labelled, the cylinders themselves weren't. Or maybe, Washington studios just did things with less hype than New York.</span></p>
<p></p>
<p></p>
<p></p>
<p></p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote> Hi Marc. Glad you enjoyed the…tag:classic-banjo.ning.com,2020-03-15:2667446:Comment:1421282020-03-15T14:46:40.232ZShawn McSweenyhttps://classic-banjo.ning.com/profile/ShawnMcSweeny
<p><span style="font-size: 12pt;">Hi Marc. Glad you enjoyed the article.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-size: 12pt;">I'm not familiar with the Stewart score, but Brooks and Denton published their arrangement of Mozskowski's "Spanish Dance" in 1892. Ossman worked with B&D for about 18 months in the mid 1890's and would have absorbed their repertoire, so it is probably the same piece that…</span></p>
<p><span style="font-size: 12pt;">Hi Marc. Glad you enjoyed the article.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-size: 12pt;">I'm not familiar with the Stewart score, but Brooks and Denton published their arrangement of Mozskowski's "Spanish Dance" in 1892. Ossman worked with B&D for about 18 months in the mid 1890's and would have absorbed their repertoire, so it is probably the same piece that <span style="text-align: left; color: #1d2228; text-transform: none; text-indent: 0px; letter-spacing: normal; font-family: Helvetica Neue,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; text-decoration: none; word-spacing: 0px; display: inline !important; white-space: normal; orphans: 2; float: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: #ffffff;">he recorded as "Spanish Dance" for Columbia around 1896 or 97, for Bettini in June, 1896, and for Berliner in March, 1900. A pdf of my C notation and digital playback of the B&D arrangement are below. Nice example of classical banjo.</span></span></p>
<p><span style="text-align: left; color: #1d2228; text-transform: none; text-indent: 0px; letter-spacing: normal; font-family: Helvetica Neue,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif; font-size: 12pt; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 400; text-decoration: none; word-spacing: 0px; display: inline !important; white-space: normal; orphans: 2; float: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: #ffffff;">Jodie, there are a number of typos in B.O.R. For example, Ossman's recording of "Del Oro" being listed as "Del Cro" comes to mind. Perhaps there is no voice introducing the piece because Berliner could imprint descriptive text onto the grooveless portion of the disc. By comparison, while Edison and Columbia cylinder tubes were labelled, the cylinders themselves weren't. Or maybe, Washington studios just did things with less hype than New York.</span></p>
<p></p>
<p></p>
<p></p>
<p></p> Wow. "Zulu Jingles" must have…tag:classic-banjo.ning.com,2020-03-15:2667446:Comment:1422292020-03-15T13:18:57.871ZJody Stecherhttps://classic-banjo.ning.com/profile/JodyStecher
<p>Wow. "Zulu Jingles" must have created quite an impression. I bet they played that at the end of a show to ensure an encore. In the book <em>The Banjo On Record</em> on the Cullen and Collins page (122), Berliner 498 is listed as "July Jingles" . On the record label of this record the Z of Zulu is written backwards and I suppose someone may have mistaken it for a J and the final u for a y. A bit farfetched but I can think of no other explanation other than absent-mindedness.</p>
<p>Of…</p>
<p>Wow. "Zulu Jingles" must have created quite an impression. I bet they played that at the end of a show to ensure an encore. In the book <em>The Banjo On Record</em> on the Cullen and Collins page (122), Berliner 498 is listed as "July Jingles" . On the record label of this record the Z of Zulu is written backwards and I suppose someone may have mistaken it for a J and the final u for a y. A bit farfetched but I can think of no other explanation other than absent-mindedness.</p>
<p>Of interest (?): no one is yelling BANJO SOLO into the horn at the start of these recordings.</p>