Classic banjo and blues banjo - Classic-Banjo2024-03-29T05:43:27Zhttps://classic-banjo.ning.com/forum/topics/classic-banjo-and-blues-banjo?commentId=2667446%3AComment%3A100061&feed=yes&xn_auth=noThis is a friendly site and t…tag:classic-banjo.ning.com,2015-02-22:2667446:Comment:999332015-02-22T21:01:43.617Zthereallynicemanhttps://classic-banjo.ning.com/profile/thereallyniceman
<p><strong>This is a friendly site and to prevent it becoming an unfriendly place I have terminated this thread.</strong></p>
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<p><strong>Ian</strong></p>
<p><strong>This is a friendly site and to prevent it becoming an unfriendly place I have terminated this thread.</strong></p>
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<p><strong>Ian</strong></p> So much for a "friendly" deba…tag:classic-banjo.ning.com,2015-02-22:2667446:Comment:1003742015-02-22T20:47:10.220Zchad floryhttps://classic-banjo.ning.com/profile/chadflory
<p>So much for a "friendly" debate.. Tony- "So if you want to throw all this work in the dustbin you can" "No one says there were not influences from other things, but to try to deny the difference between white music and black music in North America is like talking about The Earth being flat" I was in no way trying to DENY the differences or anything else. I was saying exactly what you just said that influences from other music exist(ed). What you read into it,you read into it. I live in NC…</p>
<p>So much for a "friendly" debate.. Tony- "So if you want to throw all this work in the dustbin you can" "No one says there were not influences from other things, but to try to deny the difference between white music and black music in North America is like talking about The Earth being flat" I was in no way trying to DENY the differences or anything else. I was saying exactly what you just said that influences from other music exist(ed). What you read into it,you read into it. I live in NC and have spent a great amount of time talking to many people over my life involved in music both white and black.My knowledge does NOT come from roaming the internet only. Jody-"You are talking about influences on musicians. Musicians are musicians and always will be. They play what appeals to them and are open to anything musical. I am talking about influences on types of music. Whole nuther thing." yes you are exactly right. the rest of your statements are what you "read" into my posts.It is sad that we still can not have "friendly " debates because people don't take the time to READ things clearly and are so easily offended-</p> I simply don't understand how…tag:classic-banjo.ning.com,2015-02-22:2667446:Comment:1002592015-02-22T20:12:44.687ZTony Thomas MFA Black Banjoisthttps://classic-banjo.ning.com/profile/TonyThomasMFABlackBanjoist
<p>I simply don't understand how people don't look at the realities of segregation both in the Jim Crow period and the real practice life black and white people face even today. It is true that an individual may have been forced by either enslavement or financial need, or even personal attraction to play different music. That is a sidelight, but the reality is that the music was nested in places where segregation was the most severe, in personal and social contexts that were comnmnunity…</p>
<p>I simply don't understand how people don't look at the realities of segregation both in the Jim Crow period and the real practice life black and white people face even today. It is true that an individual may have been forced by either enslavement or financial need, or even personal attraction to play different music. That is a sidelight, but the reality is that the music was nested in places where segregation was the most severe, in personal and social contexts that were comnmnunity based, particularly in venues where selecting sexual partners or spouses was a major part of the occaisions. Indeed, the fact that professional musicians could play other "forms" of music expressed that they recognized that they understood there were different kinds of music than their own.</p>
<p>The real issue is the distinct background and life conditions of African descendants in the United States produced a music, language, and culture distinct from white Americans, even if many African Americans also share the dominant culture. That is just a reality of real social life, but was exceptionally so in the Jim Crow South in the first three decades of the 20th century. The absolute fear that some of these musicians had of any transgression of the Jim Crow rules in these situations was massive,.</p>
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<p>Stu Jameson who recorded Lusk and Grimble in Tennessee right after the war told me about how fearful it was. They recorded in the general store as the best place with electricity. No Black person dared to go to the performance save the musicians. After the recordings, the whole community was angry and shocked when Stu asked the Black musicians if he could drive them home several miles late in the night to where the black settlement was. Stu said that he was rebuked by local whites for that and that his aunt who lived in the community was castigated and threatened for bringing this to happen for years. Stu said that while he was just using borrowed equipment from the library of Congress, the only way he got through the whole thing without violence was to make it seem like he was a government official and they were dictated by congress. Stu said he made it sound like a regiment of Marines would appear if they messed with him.</p>
<p>That is the real world, actually a particularly benign world compared with areas in Mississippi some of the blues musicians functioned in. </p>
<p>This set of life and death realities faced real people in this situation. But if a foremost scholar of these things whose work is published by Oxford University Press, Duke UP etc, intervenes, I am sorry if what I say is not "friendly,' but this is not a friendly question, but one over which a river of blood continues to be spilled.</p> You are talking about influen…tag:classic-banjo.ning.com,2015-02-22:2667446:Comment:1001642015-02-22T19:46:35.792ZJody Stecherhttps://classic-banjo.ning.com/profile/JodyStecher
<p>You are talking about influences on musicians. Musicians are musicians and always will be. They play what appeals to them and are open to anything musical. I am talking about influences on types of music. Whole nuther thing. We know what Scots-Irish music is like. We know what blues is like. Look at the alleged parent and look at the child. Then you know. Scots-Irish influence on blues *musicians*? Yes, you bet. But not on their blues music. The influence is on other aspects of their…</p>
<p>You are talking about influences on musicians. Musicians are musicians and always will be. They play what appeals to them and are open to anything musical. I am talking about influences on types of music. Whole nuther thing. We know what Scots-Irish music is like. We know what blues is like. Look at the alleged parent and look at the child. Then you know. Scots-Irish influence on blues *musicians*? Yes, you bet. But not on their blues music. The influence is on other aspects of their musicianship and repertoire. </p>
<p><br/> <cite>chad flory said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://classic-banjo.ning.com/forum/topics/classic-banjo-and-blues-banjo?commentId=2667446%3AComment%3A100255&xg_source=activity#2667446Comment100255"><div><div class="xg_user_generated"><p>Jody I agree completely that no "decoder ring" exists but much of the information does.What you said about the piano is pretty much my point about the blues,old time ,bluegrass,string band music we hear today. these forms are all the result of many innovators from many places.To say though that the influence of Scots Irish on blues does not exist? All rual forms of music especially in the south have this influence. Just as much they have a African influence. Honey Boy Edwards speaks in an interview of Robert Johnson as did Johnny Shines that Robert and others made it a point to and could play "any" form of music. Listen to Charley Pattons works or Blind Willie Mctell and you will hear the white songs that they also learned and played. Dink Roberts also clearly said in a recorded interview that he played as did many of these blues artist for white dances as many nights he played for black dances and that he played and learned from white and black.That NONE of these peoples influences where Scots Irish is impossible.They needed to learn the forms of all the music around them as this is how they made their livings. Again though as stated before those usually where not the songs that got recorded.Also it is known blues history that Robert Johnson idolized Son House. He followed him and Charley Patton around as a child.One example is Roberts "Walking Blues"(a song already recorded by House) is most of the borrowed words of House "walking blues" and some music from House song "My Black Momma" The playing and singing styles though where very different. my point was again just to show how we learn from and borrow from others.Just as it would be a pretty safe bet that House got the influence from another. I tell young players all the time how lucky they are to have the internet. Alot of players of all these forms of music did in fact make filmed interviews i could never have seen as a youngster.My knowledge took years of my life searching what a person can now learn online in a very short time .Also Jody it would be impossible for you and I and others here to have this "friendly" debate</p>
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First of all stacks of volu…tag:classic-banjo.ning.com,2015-02-22:2667446:Comment:1003732015-02-22T19:38:10.182ZTony Thomas MFA Black Banjoisthttps://classic-banjo.ning.com/profile/TonyThomasMFABlackBanjoist
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<p>First of all stacks of volumes have been written not about the derivation of the blues and other African American music from West African music, by music scholars in Europe, the United States, and West Africa itself. hardly anyone serious has written anything else on these issues since openly racist interpretations were chased away 50 years ago. So if you want to throw all this work in the dustbin you can. Some music scholars actually consider African American music as a whole as…</p>
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<p>First of all stacks of volumes have been written not about the derivation of the blues and other African American music from West African music, by music scholars in Europe, the United States, and West Africa itself. hardly anyone serious has written anything else on these issues since openly racist interpretations were chased away 50 years ago. So if you want to throw all this work in the dustbin you can. Some music scholars actually consider African American music as a whole as a branch of West African music.</p>
<p> When actually interviewed about Black and white musicial interchange, Dink's statement was pretty unrepresentative of the interviews available with Black banjoists of his generation although it was pretty much taken out of the real context of Dink's life or further things he said in the interview. </p>
<p>The overwhelming majority of his contemporaries among Black banjoists when asked about this could point to no playing together with whites before folk revivalists began to approach them in the 1970s. Even Dink when actually asked about what white musicians he played with could only identify Tommy Thompson as a revivalist banjoist and UNC English professor he met in the late 1970s. This is a pretty standard response in the dozens of such interviews with Black old time players of banjo and fiddle I have heard.</p>
<p>Joe Thompson was pretty explicit when he talked to me about how differently one had to play for white dancers and dances than for black dancers, just as any intelligent person today would know to bring different music for a Black dance than for a white dance today.</p>
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<p>When you actually talk to these musicians , you find that the practical business of playing music, particularly for dances meant that they had to play music differently for white people and black people in the real segregated world that they existed in, and that the musics are quite different even if there was some interchange. By and large in real social life in the United States musical activity is fairly segregrated, if no longer by lawm, by cultural difference.</p>
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<p>No one says there were not influences from other things, but to try to deny the difference between white music and black music in North America is like talking about the Earth being flat. You seem quite unfamiliar with modern research work on American music in general and African American music in particular, rather than roaming the internet, it might be nice to inform yourself of the hard work those of us who do real research have come up with.</p>
<p></p> A couple weeks ago on the "ha…tag:classic-banjo.ning.com,2015-02-22:2667446:Comment:1002562015-02-22T19:32:09.736ZTexican65https://classic-banjo.ning.com/profile/DowDouthitt
<p>A couple weeks ago on the "hangout", somebody posted about Rev. Gary Davis playing 6 string banjo. Myself having never experinced a black bluesman playing banjo...I checked it out and..SON...it's well worth a listen...I liked it a lot! Figured I'd post about it since we're on the blues banjo topic...sorta! :) Give it a listen. </p>
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<p>The banjo starts at around 17:20, he plays Devil's Dream. Enjoy!</p>
<p>Dow</p>
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<p>A couple weeks ago on the "hangout", somebody posted about Rev. Gary Davis playing 6 string banjo. Myself having never experinced a black bluesman playing banjo...I checked it out and..SON...it's well worth a listen...I liked it a lot! Figured I'd post about it since we're on the blues banjo topic...sorta! :) Give it a listen. </p>
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<p>The banjo starts at around 17:20, he plays Devil's Dream. Enjoy!</p>
<p>Dow</p>
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<p><a rel="nofollow" href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8BxxtMZELAM">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8BxxtMZELAM</a></p>
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<p> </p> Yes Patrick more to the origi…tag:classic-banjo.ning.com,2015-02-22:2667446:Comment:1001622015-02-22T19:19:07.503Zchad floryhttps://classic-banjo.ning.com/profile/chadflory
<p>Yes Patrick more to the original point. can?could anyone post some Robert Johnson being played on the banjo? it dosen't appear that the book comes with a cd?</p>
<p>Yes Patrick more to the original point. can?could anyone post some Robert Johnson being played on the banjo? it dosen't appear that the book comes with a cd?</p> Jody I agree completely that…tag:classic-banjo.ning.com,2015-02-22:2667446:Comment:1002552015-02-22T19:09:36.460Zchad floryhttps://classic-banjo.ning.com/profile/chadflory
<p>Jody I agree completely that no "decoder ring" exists but much of the information does.What you said about the piano is pretty much my point about the blues,old time ,bluegrass,string band music we hear today. these forms are all the result of many innovators from many places.To say though that the influence of Scots Irish on blues does not exist? All rual forms of music especially in the south have this influence. Just as much they have a African influence. Honey Boy Edwards speaks in an…</p>
<p>Jody I agree completely that no "decoder ring" exists but much of the information does.What you said about the piano is pretty much my point about the blues,old time ,bluegrass,string band music we hear today. these forms are all the result of many innovators from many places.To say though that the influence of Scots Irish on blues does not exist? All rual forms of music especially in the south have this influence. Just as much they have a African influence. Honey Boy Edwards speaks in an interview of Robert Johnson as did Johnny Shines that Robert and others made it a point to and could play "any" form of music. Listen to Charley Pattons works or Blind Willie Mctell and you will hear the white songs that they also learned and played. Dink Roberts also clearly said in a recorded interview that he played as did many of these blues artist for white dances as many nights he played for black dances and that he played and learned from white and black.That NONE of these peoples influences where Scots Irish is impossible.They needed to learn the forms of all the music around them as this is how they made their livings. Again though as stated before those usually where not the songs that got recorded.Also it is known blues history that Robert Johnson idolized Son House. He followed him and Charley Patton around as a child.One example is Roberts "Walking Blues"(a song already recorded by House) is most of the borrowed words of House "walking blues" and some music from House song "My Black Momma" The playing and singing styles though where very different. my point was again just to show how we learn from and borrow from others.Just as it would be a pretty safe bet that House got the influence from another. I tell young players all the time how lucky they are to have the internet. Alot of players of all these forms of music did in fact make filmed interviews i could never have seen as a youngster.My knowledge took years of my life searching what a person can now learn online in a very short time .Also Jody it would be impossible for you and I and others here to have this "friendly" debate</p> I'll note that as the origina…tag:classic-banjo.ning.com,2015-02-22:2667446:Comment:1003712015-02-22T18:31:36.111ZPatrick Garnerhttps://classic-banjo.ning.com/profile/PatrickGarner
<p>I'll note that as the original poster, I meant for this to be an amusing thread--from beginning to end--and nothing more. It quickly diverged. For goodness sake, let's just enjoy music here, and not wander off.</p>
<p>I'll note that as the original poster, I meant for this to be an amusing thread--from beginning to end--and nothing more. It quickly diverged. For goodness sake, let's just enjoy music here, and not wander off.</p> And right back-atcha, Tony. E…tag:classic-banjo.ning.com,2015-02-22:2667446:Comment:1003702015-02-22T18:26:49.127ZJody Stecherhttps://classic-banjo.ning.com/profile/JodyStecher
<p>And right back-atcha, Tony. Excellent analysis! I also agree with you. <br/> <br/> <cite>Tony Thomas MFA Black Banjoist said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://classic-banjo.ning.com/forum/topics/classic-banjo-and-blues-banjo?commentId=2667446%3AComment%3A100251&xg_source=activity#2667446Comment100152"><div><div class="xg_user_generated"><p>Nice post Jody. </p>
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<p>And right back-atcha, Tony. Excellent analysis! I also agree with you. <br/> <br/> <cite>Tony Thomas MFA Black Banjoist said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://classic-banjo.ning.com/forum/topics/classic-banjo-and-blues-banjo?commentId=2667446%3AComment%3A100251&xg_source=activity#2667446Comment100152"><div><div class="xg_user_generated"><p>Nice post Jody. </p>
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